680.25 Feeder to spa disconnect

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Greg1707

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Location
Alexandria, VA
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Business owner Electrical contractor
680.25 refers to feeders conductors to PANEL BOARDS supplying pool equipment. Is a SPA DISCONNECT/GFI breaker considered a panel board? I need to install the disconnect on the exterior of outdoor shed. I had planned to run UF cable from panel in the basement outside through a trench to the exterior mounted disconnect. Then run PVC from disconnect to the self contained spa.
 
If is just a disco and no other breakers then this is not a feeder but a Branch Circuit.
Once you take that 60 amp circuit and supply a sub panel with branch circuits it is now a Feeder.

Make sure that you don't get a spa delivered that needs several branch breakers as some do.
 
Spa disconnect with 50 amp breaker and GFCI protection

Spa disconnect with 50 amp breaker and GFCI protection

The disconnect contains a 50 amp breaker as well as GFCI protection. If this is a branch circuit it would require an insulated ground. If this is a feeder to a PANEL BOARD it will require an insulated ground as well.
 
GerryB said:
Wouldn't that rule out using UF cable?
Click to expand...

Under the 2014 NEC if a branch circuit you can use any applicable chapter 3 method.

(4) One-Family Dwellings. In the interior of dwelling
units, or in the interior of accessory buildings associated
with a dwelling unit, any of the wiring methods
recognized in Chapter 3 of this Code that comply with the
provisions of this section shall be permitted. Where run in
a cable assembly, the equipment grounding conductor
shall be permitted to be uninsulated, but it shall be
enclosed within the outer sheath of the cable assembly.
 
Sierrasparky said:
Under the 2014 NEC if a branch circuit you can use any applicable chapter 3 method.

(4) One-Family Dwellings. In the interior of dwelling
units, or in the interior of accessory buildings associated
with a dwelling unit, any of the wiring methods
recognized in Chapter 3 of this Code that comply with the
provisions of this section shall be permitted. Where run in
a cable assembly, the equipment grounding conductor
shall be permitted to be uninsulated, but it shall be
enclosed within the outer sheath of the cable assembly.
Click to expand...
I think he is talking about Art 680, maybe 680.21(A)(1) You need an insulated ground for a pool motor(or Spa)
 
Sierrasparky said:
Under the 2014 NEC if a branch circuit you can use any applicable chapter 3 method.

(4) One-Family Dwellings. In the interior of dwelling
units, or in the interior of accessory buildings associated
with a dwelling unit, any of the wiring methods
recognized in Chapter 3 of this Code that comply with the
provisions of this section shall be permitted. Where run in
a cable assembly, the equipment grounding conductor
shall be permitted to be uninsulated, but it shall be
enclosed within the outer sheath of the cable assembly.
Click to expand...

GerryB said:
I think he is talking about Art 680, maybe 680.21(A)(1) You need an insulated ground for a pool motor(or Spa)
Click to expand...

Its from 680.21
 
panel board / spa disconnect

panel board / spa disconnect

Thank you for the replies to my posting. The question is---is a spa disconnect with over current protection a PANELBOARD?
 
Greg1707 said:
Thank you for the replies to my posting. The question is---is a spa disconnect with over current protection a PANELBOARD?
Click to expand...
No as long as it only has one 2 pole breaker space, otherwise it is a panel used as a disconnect.
 
Sierrasparky said:
If is just a disco and no other breakers then this is not a feeder but a Branch Circuit.
Once you take that 60 amp circuit and supply a sub panel with branch circuits it is now a Feeder.

Make sure that you don't get a spa delivered that needs several branch breakers as some do.
Click to expand...

Where did you come up this definition of a branch circuit

If the disconnect has over current protection for the supply to the spa how can it be a branch circuit from the panel to the shed

Greg1707 said:
I need to install the disconnect on the exterior of outdoor shed. I had planned to run UF cable from panel in the basement outside through a trench to the exterior mounted disconnect. Then run PVC from disconnect to the self contained spa.
Click to expand...
 
Greg1707 said:
680.25 refers to feeders conductors to PANEL BOARDS supplying pool equipment. Is a SPA DISCONNECT/GFI breaker considered a panel board? I need to install the disconnect on the exterior of outdoor shed. I had planned to run UF cable from panel in the basement outside through a trench to the exterior mounted disconnect. Then run PVC from disconnect to the self contained spa.
Click to expand...

2014 NEC
also " any feeder on the load side of service equipment or the source of a SDS"

2017 NEC this changes based on site conditions subject to corrosion
 
UF Cable to Spa disconnect

UF Cable to Spa disconnect

Okay, let me refine my question. I am mounting a spa disconnect/50 amp breaker/GFCI unit on the outside of a utility shed. The route of the conductors will be from the basement through a trench to the spa disconnect. This is a FEEDER circuit supplying the spa disconnect. Is an insulated EGC required??
 
Greg1707 said:
Okay, let me refine my question. I am mounting a spa disconnect/50 amp breaker/GFCI unit on the outside of a utility shed. The route of the conductors will be from the basement through a trench to the spa disconnect. This is a FEEDER circuit supplying the spa disconnect. Is an insulated EGC required??
Click to expand...

2014 NEC yes the wiring method needs to be one with an insulated equipment ground 680.42

see 680.42(C ) option : interior portion only, dwelling unit, Copper not smaller than 12 AWG

2017 NEC Any chapter three wiring method depending on site conditions, 2017 UF cable could be approved
 
Sierrasparky said:
Under the 2014 NEC if a branch circuit you can use any applicable chapter 3 method.

(4) One-Family Dwellings. In the interior of dwelling
units, or in the interior of accessory buildings associated
with a dwelling unit, any of the wiring methods
recognized in Chapter 3 of this Code that comply with the
provisions of this section shall be permitted. Where run in
a cable assembly, the equipment grounding conductor
shall be permitted to be uninsulated, but it shall be
enclosed within the outer sheath of the cable assembly.
Click to expand...

Greg1707 said:
Okay, let me refine my question. I am mounting a spa disconnect/50 amp breaker/GFCI unit on the outside of a utility shed. The route of the conductors will be from the basement through a trench to the spa disconnect. This is a FEEDER circuit supplying the spa disconnect. Is an insulated EGC required??
Click to expand...
Exterior portions of the circuit must have insulated EGC, interior portions comply with code quoted above.
 
david said:
2014 NEC yes the wiring method needs to be one with an insulated equipment ground 680.42

see 680.42(C ) option : interior portion only, dwelling unit, Copper not smaller than 12 AWG

2017 NEC Any chapter three wiring method depending on site conditions, 2017 UF cable could be approved
Click to expand...
I think 2014 also, 680.42(C) as you noted says in part "equipment grounding conductor that is insulated or enclosed within the outer sheath".
 
GerryB said:
I think 2014 also, 680.42(C) as you noted says in part "equipment grounding conductor that is insulated or enclosed within the outer sheath".
Click to expand...

I partly take back some of what I said earlier. 680.42 applies because we are supplying a spa. There was some changes to wording from 2014 to 2017, but I don't think it really effects the outcome of what you can install much. Outdoors I think you must follow 680parts I and II - which will require insulated EGC. (C) allows other methods for indoor portions of circuits supplying an outdoor spa, at dwelling locations. UF would be allowed for indoor portions of the circuit in both 2014 and 2017, but not allowed outdoors in either year.
 
kwired said:
I partly take back some of what I said earlier. 680.42 applies because we are supplying a spa. There was some changes to wording from 2014 to 2017, but I don't think it really effects the outcome of what you can install much. Outdoors I think you must follow 680parts I and II - which will require insulated EGC. (C) allows other methods for indoor portions of circuits supplying an outdoor spa, at dwelling locations. UF would be allowed for indoor portions of the circuit in both 2014 and 2017, but not allowed outdoors in either year.
Click to expand...

2017 680.25 Feeders

"where installed in non-corrosive environments, feeders shall comply with the general requirements in chapter 3"

but i think the OP is asking about the 2014 NEC
 
david said:
2017 680.25 Feeders

"where installed in non-corrosive environments, feeders shall comply with the general requirements in chapter 3"

but i think the OP is asking about the 2014 NEC
Click to expand...
Part of what OP asked is if that portion of the run is a feeder or a branch circuit.
 
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