800amp panel install

[iwire]

Well i don't think you understand this but its a factory screw up on the label only and cover plate so we get a letter from the CH factory which covers us in the engineer part of this issue.

They would have to come out and change the breaker or label but electrically its fine its just not your normal way you see a breaker in a panel .

Ohm, I work on equipment like this as well. I fully understand.

I think your position is that 'This is what we do and it passes so it must be OK'.

It is not OK, it is a violation.

We will not touch there stuff its a ul thing

Exactly, and with line and load mislabeled you are in violation of this 'UL thing'

Since they write the white pages its ok

No, it is not OK, they can not change the requirements.

 

[dduffee260]

Did you tape the black wire with purple tape? Seems like it would have been better to order purple wire. They are right about the violations. It does look like a neat installation where you have pride in your workmanship. Just check up on the rules and you will be doing fine. Take care

 

[ohmhead]

Well with the good points made on this you must read this there are breakers made by many that are actually reverse ul listed please read this page when we asked Cutler Hammer for proof of this its what we presented to the engineer as noted .

Also ABB -SQ D-- CH --- SIEMENS -- ECT ECT make reverse breakers in different types and sizes .

Not to say its every breaker its not and yes dont asume it but if you ask you factory its done everyday .

Hope this helps with http://www.hld3600.com/ HLDB TYPE



But ask before you do !

 

[augie47]

This quote from your link "The HLD3400 is not UL-listed for reverse feed applications. One must use an HLDB or LDB for a reverse feed application"
gives one cause to think. Apparently we can not assume every thermal-magnetic breaker can be reverse fed.

 

[ohmhead]

This quote from your link "The HLD3400 is not UL-listed for reverse feed applications. One must use an HLDB or LDB for a reverse feed application"
gives one cause to think. Apparently we can not assume every thermal-magnetic breaker can be reverse fed.

Well if you read my post last sentence it says HLDB breaker thats what we had in panel theres more information at Eaton .
Problem was they put the sticker on the wrong side

Ill get you the web page if you like its good reading ?


They make lots of breakers for reverse connections if fact just about all will do it but the trip electronic types need it labeled meaning if the breaker is not labeled line or load from say Eaton it can be a reverse connection if you wish and check the listing on that per the factory so were correct in my post and application in that post .


We total respect each and everyones opinion its not a normal the way a electrician would install but its ok you must know what your looking at before you can say yes or no .

 

[iwire]

They make lots of breakers for reverse connections

No one has said otherwise.

But the fact remains if a breaker is labeled LINE and LOAD it MUST BE connected per the labeling to comply with the NEC, if your AHJ decides to accept it anyway that changes nothing for the rest of the country.

My best guess is that the low paid person in the panel shop simply installed it backward assuming that is was a load breaker not the main breaker.

I would spin it around myself and move on.

 

[augie47]

I did read it and I understand HLDB is approved.
What caught my eye was the fact that an HLD (NO B) 3400 is not.
It just suprised me as I thought all TM breakers were, but as you state
you must know before saying yes or no.

For what it's worth, with the "LOAD" label affixed, based on the UL White Book, I would not pass the job.

 

[ohmhead]

Well yes geeeee i hate to say that iwire but yes generally you must wire it line and load its just i get all the fun jobs and see odd ball stuff that i wish i never had.

take care

 

[augie47]

Curious, was the panel marked as "Suitable for Service Equipment " ?

 

[ohmhead]

Curious, was the panel marked as "Suitable for Service Equipment " ?

Well first Augie 47 glad to hear about your new spot on the forum !!!!!!!!


Your not as bad as iwire hee hee that was a joke iwire !!!!!

Did you ask me if ?

If that was a service rated panel i cant think that far back it was three years ago and iam getting old so sorry i cant say > maybe> yes / no/ well / i think / ???.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I thought the NEC required the "high leg" on a 120/240 volt 3 phase 4 wire delta service to be marked with orange tape?

Bob,
The code does not really require the use of an orange marking to identify the high leg.

110.15 High-Leg Marking.
On a 4-wire, delta-connected system where the midpoint of one phase winding is grounded, only the conductor or busbar having the higher phase voltage to ground shall be durably and permanently marked by an outer finish that is orange in color or by other effective means. Such identification shall be placed at each point on the system where a connection is made if the grounded conductor is also present.

The code clearly permits methods other than the orange color to be used for the identification of the high leg.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Those look like the stabs for bolt-in type circuit breakers

Yes, I think that is correct, but I don't like the fact that all of the spaces are equipped for future breakers. The bus fingers may be difficult to locate in the future if someone wants to use the unequipped spaces.

 

[LarryFine]

Bob,
The code does not really require the use of an orange marking to identify the high leg.

The code clearly permits methods other than the orange color to be used for the identification of the high leg.

I take that to mean obtaining an orange color by methods other than the outer (i.e., factory-applied) finish.

 

[rpjaj5]

Yes, the black wire was taped purple because Southwire did not offer purple as a colored feeder at that time.

 

[infinity]

I take that to mean obtaining an orange color by methods other than the outer (i.e., factory-applied) finish.

The way I read it is that you could identify the conductor or the bus bar with an orange outer finish or you could use some other means to identify that the system contains a high leg. How about a sign?

 

[augie47]

The way I read it is that you could identify the conductor or the bus bar with an orange outer finish or you could use some other means to identify that the system contains a high leg. How about a sign?

That would seem to be the case for 110.15, but for services, 230.56 seems to lean more to identifying the conductor itself. (no necessarily by orange...but apparently the conductor and not the system, so a sign would not seem practical)

 

[LarryFine]

How about a sign?

You bet. Here's one:

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I take that to mean obtaining an orange color by methods other than the outer (i.e., factory-applied) finish.

And I take it to mean any method you chose to use that will identify the high leg.

 

[LarryFine]

And I take it to mean any method you chose to use that will identify the high leg.

How about a graphic:

​

I consider the orange coloring to not be optional.

 

[iwire]

I consider the orange coloring to not be optional.

In my opinion

or by other effective means

leaves the door open to any color and any method acceptable to the AHJ.