820 CATV, and CAT5e

[stormhawk]

1) How high must the RG6 cable from Sat, or device between above the existing ground terrain?

2) So with POE, this is running in the building, ground floor to the roof could be multiple story, with no conduit. Do I need conduit in the building and or the roof? Obviously if you say only the roof, it must be grounded. The expected current is between 125ma to 150ma.

3) The distance from the POW injector to the router/switch can be how long?

4) Must I ground the Cat5e that is coming from an enclosure, perhaps non metallic, on the roof to the building ground at the entry point?

5) All openings between floors where cable passes through will need to be sealed?

 

[hbiss]

1) Not sure what you are asking. Is this an aerial cable between buildings? The NEC doesn't specify clearance but I always tried to maintain 14 feet. Also see 820.44.

2) POE (power over ethernet) cat cables do not have to be in conduit.

3) Do you mean POE injector? The max distance should be in the equipment instructions.

4) You don't ground the cable rather you use a protector that should be located as close to the point of building entry as possible and bonded to the service ground.

5) Generally yes. In new construction it's required.

-Hal

 

[stormhawk]

The distance that the RG6 must off the grass or cement before it penetrates the wall to the customer.

Yes, POE injector. So there is no specific regulation as to length of cable?

So is bonding to an AC disconnect switch on the roof this would be acceptable.

What about existing buildings where the hole must be made between floors?

You can enter through an current installed roof vent, or fan exhaust?

-Hal[/QUOTE]

 

[stormhawk]

1) The distance above the ground, whether grass or cement.

2) So no conduit, even running across the roof say 50-100ft.

3) The POW will specify the max distance to the switch.

4) So if you penetrate through a floor on existing structures, no problem.

5) What about between walls interior, that are not a fire wall where you must seal the opening?

 

[hbiss]

The distance that the RG6 must off the grass or cement before it penetrates the wall to the customer.

You can put it anywhere. However I would want to protect it from lawnmowers and string trimmers as necessary.

Yes, POE injector. So there is no specific regulation as to length of cable?

That's up to the equipment The NEC has very little to do with LV.

So is bonding to an AC disconnect switch on the roof this would be acceptable.

Absolutely not. It must be run to the service entrance ground.

What about existing buildings where the hole must be made between floors?

Do what you want, they don't have to be sealed.

What about between walls interior, that are not a fire wall where you must seal the opening?

No.

You can enter through an current installed roof vent, or fan exhaust?

If you are a hack, yes.

-Hal

 

[Eh40]

1) How high must the RG6 cable from Sat, or device between above the existing ground terrain?

2) So with POE, this is running in the building, ground floor to the roof could be multiple story, with no conduit. Do I need conduit in the building and or the roof? Obviously if you say only the roof, it must be grounded. The expected current is between 125ma to 150ma.
Use the appropriate rated cable as needed, plenum, Riser, and proper outdoor ratings as needed. You will most likely want some spacing off of the roof and maybe pipe as temperature on a roof can be extreme, in addition to direct sunlight exposure.

3) The distance from the POW injector to the router/switch can be how long?
Several factors come into play here, one of the biggest is voltage drop, Using a heavier guage wire such as a Cat 6 type wire, will have less resistance. decrease voltage drop and therefore permit a longer run.

4) Must I ground the Cat5e that is coming from an enclosure, perhaps non metallic, on the roof to the building ground at the entry point?
Any wire entering a building should be properly grounded, there is code (ie wire guage and length) methods and requirements for this. Also any wire entering a building is required by code to be sealed. Also note outdoor rated cable should be used.

5) All openings between floors where cable passes through will need to be sealed?

Yes fire cauliking/ stop should be used in new or existing constuction, to include pipe sealing for multi floor pipes floors.

 

[hbiss]

The idea is to avoid running the cable on the roof to begin with.

Actually CAT6 has smaller gauge conductors than CAT5.

Any wire entering a building is required by code to be sealed.

Where does it say that?

Yes fire cauliking/ stop should be used in new or existing constuction, to include pipe sealing for multi floor pipes floors.

So, if you drill a 5/16" hole through a floor and run a CAT5e up from the basement you are going to fire caulk it? :roll: Conduit and raceway risers are another story.

-Hal

 

[Eh40]

The idea is to avoid running the cable on the roof to begin with.

Actually CAT6 has smaller gauge conductors than CAT5.
The CAT5 wire I have seen is 24 gauge, cat 6 wire is 23 guage.

Where does it say that?
So, if you drill a 5/16" hole through a floor and run a CAT5e up from the basement you are going to fire caulk it? :roll: Conduit and raceway risers are another story.
An in floor rated box for that situation is required, as to floor to floor , or inwall wiring, this requires fire stop between floors.

 

[Eh40]

reply

reply


As far as wires from the exterior, all pipes from exterior require sealing per NEC electrical code, all wires (or any penetrations) enter from the outside of the building require sealing per international energy code (IEC).

So, if you drill a 5/16" hole through a floor and run a CAT5e up from the basement you are going to fire caulk it? :roll:
Conduit and raceway risers are another story.
No as with any in floor penetrations an infloor rated box is required.
-Hal[/QUOTE]

 

[hbiss]

Post code reference please.

-Hal

 

[Eh40]

Wall and floor pentration codes

Wall and floor pentration codes

For code references start with IECC R401.2 , some additonal code explanation in plain english can be found at US Department of energy Air leakage guide, in addition there are also thermal barrier and blower door testing requirements not to mention fire caulk requirements. Some of these can be found in IBC, IRC ,iECC for both existing and new construction.In commercial , the fact that fire barriers are all over the place , adds further complication.

 

[hbiss]

The OP was asking about the NEC, specifically Art 820. We have no idea what kind project he has in mind (if any). Residential, commercial, old construction or new construction, we don't know. My answers were based on the NEC and my experience in general relating to his questions and my take on his technical abilities. While, as you note there are other codes that may apply, without knowing the scope of work and the specs you can't make assumptions that certain things are required. Otherwise a simple cable, sat or phone install could cost thousands.

-Hal

 

[stormhawk]

The OP was asking about the NEC, specifically Art 820. We have no idea what kind project he has in mind (if any). Residential, commercial, old construction or new construction, we don't know. My answers were based on the NEC and my experience in general relating to his questions and my take on his technical abilities. While, as you note there are other codes that may apply, without knowing the scope of work and the specs you can't make assumptions that certain things are required. Otherwise a simple cable, sat or phone install could cost thousands.

-Hal

I know that both Direct & Dish use a ground bonding UL type adapter to ground the shield of the cable to a water pipe.
I also know that cable companies, Infinity also have a wire from their facility mounted box to a water pipe or ground rod (8ft).
The phone company also has a dedicated ground, 8ft, located where the wire junction box is on the house.
There is a known fact that static will bill up in an external environment, possible due to lightning. This static will couple to the shield
and can transfer through the foam to the center conductor. Reference; Mike Holt Guide to Limited Energy & Communications Systems Articles 725 - 820.

 

[hbiss]

I know that both Direct & Dish use a ground bonding UL type adapter to ground the shield of the cable to a water pipe.
I also know that cable companies, Infinity also have a wire from their facility mounted box to a water pipe or ground rod (8ft).
The phone company also has a dedicated ground, 8ft, located where the wire junction box is on the house.

It's important to understand that in any and all of those cases you mention, the ground MUST be bonded to the electrical service ground. You CANNOT just drive a ground rod! Connecting to a water pipe invites problems also. Just because the phone or the cable company does something doesn't mean that it is correct, safe or code compliant. It is poor practice to learn by looking at what they do!

There is a known fact that static will bill up in an external environment, possible due to lightning. This static will couple to the shield
and can transfer through the foam to the center conductor. Reference; Mike Holt Guide to Limited Energy & Communications Systems Articles 725 - 820.

That's why the shield has to be bonded to the service entrance ground where it enters the premises.

-Hal

 

[stormhawk]

The OP was asking about the NEC, specifically Art 820. We have no idea what kind project he has in mind (if any). Residential, commercial, old construction or new construction, we don't know. My answers were based on the NEC and my experience in general relating to his questions and my take on his technical abilities. While, as you note there are other codes that may apply, without knowing the scope of work and the specs you can't make assumptions that certain things are required. Otherwise a simple cable, sat or phone install could cost thousands.

-Hal

I personally observed both ATT and Direct and how they ground their systems. So I beg to differ that they did not ground to an electrical system. ATT drove an 8ft rod in the ground next to the box when they install DSL. Direct attached a bare wire from the ground block to the water pipe facet coming from the cement wall located with 2 - 3ft. And infinity attached the ground wire from their box, with a label indicating not to remove, so a water pipe with a 4- 6ft wire. So connecting directly to the electrical of the facility was absent. In the old day, the electrical from the service of the power company was boned in the attic to the cold water pipe. Now, there are (2) ground rods driven in the ground 8FT located next to the service of the facility. This is for residential and as I know is for Florida.

 

[hbiss]

Ok, you came here looking for advice. If you don't want to listen to what we have to say there is nothing more to be said.

-Hal

 

[stormhawk]

Ok, you came here looking for advice. If you don't want to listen to what we have to say there is nothing more to be said.

-Hal

Fair statement. I will find the documents, and reason from Direct TV as most installers are independent contractors and
are required to follow a set of specific written procedures. As for ATT, if really easy, I know people so I will see what they specify
for there installations. Especially when they are adding to an existing account with new product. So will report what is revealed.

 

[GoldDigger]

I personally observed both ATT and Direct and how they ground their systems. So I beg to differ that they did not ground to an electrical system. ATT drove an 8ft rod in the ground next to the box when they install DSL. Direct attached a bare wire from the ground block to the water pipe facet coming from the cement wall located with 2 - 3ft. And infinity attached the ground wire from their box, with a label indicating not to remove, so a water pipe with a 4- 6ft wire. So connecting directly to the electrical of the facility was absent. In the old day, the electrical from the service of the power company was boned in the attic to the cold water pipe. Now, there are (2) ground rods driven in the ground 8FT located next to the service of the facility. This is for residential and as I know is for Florida.

Note please that connecting to a dedicated ground rod is NOT grounding to the electrical system. There is no metallic fault path to the POCO transformer secondary.
And connecting to a water pipe I'd only indirectly connecting to the building GES and relies on the assumption that the GES is bonded to water pipe and metallic pipe connection is maintained in the future.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[stormhawk]

Note please that connecting to a dedicated ground rod is NOT grounding to the electrical system. There is no metallic fault path to the POCO transformer secondary.
And connecting to a water pipe I'd only indirectly connecting to the building GES and relies on the assumption that the GES is bonded to water pipe and metallic pipe connection is maintained in the future.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

So I Agree with your statement. However this practice that is done by both Direct, Dish, and ATT I have personally witness as
it was being done. So this is their practice; true there is no path to the POCO transformer. Again I will do some additional research
this week and perhaps a more definitive statement. So far everything I have asked in this forum has been addressed except for the height of the cable entering the building, as in the case of Direct or Dish or ATT, or a cable provider.

 

[hbiss]

What is your interest or role in any of this?

-Hal