9 hot conductors

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lcunit81

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It's funny, today at work my foremen started to let everyone know that your only allow to run no more than 9 (hot) ungrounded conductors in any raceway, we were all like What? purpose he said was to avoid the heat on the raceway, but i told him it has to do with conductor fill, but iit got him even mad just cause I question him and tried to correct him. Not to be racism but he's chinese and he needs more education on the nec and to be good lead foremen. He's one of those electricians that where told to do so and final, no explanations or reasons to know the purposes for learning the code. He just started working with us and the only reason he got the job was because he is friends with my boss for a long time. How do i provide and explain him about the code for that matter to make him understand in order for me to school him.
 
So, he ran into an American!

If the breath of, we can get to question authority!

IE were born with Indepedance, where a society of Rules and Laws!
 
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lcunit81 said:
......How do i provide and explain him about the code for that matter to make him understand in order for me to school him.
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Very carefully. Let me direct you to my signature which was put there mostly so I could read it and be reminded of it, but you may find it usefull. My lips begin moving before my brain catches up sometimes.

Ego, Status, and Arrogance should be treated with caution. No matter what your position, offending the unreasonable can be a tricky mess to recover from.

My advice: be calm, cool, and confident. And don't make it personal.

Best of luck.
 
Pull him to the side and show him the tables. Out of the harsh glare of the others criticism. I was always carefull not to throw people under the bus but there are a certain few that should have definitely been thrown under the bus.
 
frizbeedog said:
Very carefully. Let me direct you to my signature which was put there mostly so I could read it and be reminded of it, but you may find it usefull. My lips begin moving before my brain catches up sometimes.

Ego, Status, and Arrogance should be treated with caution. No matter what your position, offending the unreasonable can be a tricky mess to recover from.

My advice: be calm, cool, and confident. And don't make it personal.

Best of luck.
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Nicely stated!!!
 
Sounds like he might have part of the story.

If we are talking about #12 THHN on 20amp C/b's then 9 current carrying conductors max would be correct. Remember, neutrals can be current carrying conductors sometimes.

It doesn't matter if it is a 1" or a 3" raceway, it is about the heat generated by all the conductors acting upon each other.
 
Why dont you try to explain it to him without the whole gang around. Don't try to grandstand him, that makes you look like a tool no matter how right your are, and hes less apt to be receptive to your enlightenedment. Oh ..... and why do you feel you need to tell us he is Chinese? Why does that matter? I know plenty of ignorant Caucasions.
 
It might not be what you think.
You happen to be one that understands the NEC and there may be many on the site that don't.
When I worked a shop, we made it "policy", "no more than 10 wires in a conduit".
Fellows who were unable or unwilling to determine a curent-carrying conductor form another and who only used a Code book to store gas receipts can understand "no more than".. they will be dead and buried before beginning to understand the concept of 310.15.
 
Forgive me but ,.. judging from the poor use of the English language in the O.P. ,..this may be more of a communication issue than a lack of knowledge issue .... So I would make sure I understood ,exactly,..what is being said before I went an educated anyone , especially a foreman.
 
lcunit81 said:
It's funny, today at work my foremen started to let everyone know that your only allow to run no more than 9 (hot) ungrounded conductors in any raceway, we were all like What? purpose he said was to avoid the heat on the raceway, but i told him it has to do with conductor fill, but iit got him even mad just cause I question him and tried to correct him. Not to be racism but he's chinese and he needs more education on the nec and to be good lead foremen. He's one of those electricians that where told to do so and final, no explanations or reasons to know the purposes for learning the code. He just started working with us and the only reason he got the job was because he is friends with my boss for a long time. How do i provide and explain him about the code for that matter to make him understand in order for me to school him.
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I bet you pounced on him in front of the crowd..he probably was relaying what he was told too..did not have an answer and you embarrassed him..you are more worried about his race then you are him being a man..How would you feel if right away in the morning (very first thing) someone jumped on you in front of all the employees..kind of puts him on the defense and makes him look foolish..mission accomplished if that was what you are after..So foreman goes back to truck or trailer calls boss up and explains it to him from his perspective and gets pointers..so much for your job advancement and that raise just went from nice to mediocre or even no exsistant..you get job done on time or early so much for a bonus..

Now on to your question all you have to do is leave the code book open to the page and in a place where he can see it..but make sure it is by your stuff and it pertains to the work you are performing like pulling wires just remember he said no more then 9 wires or you can be fired..correct or not you were given an order..
 
The guy is either confused or misinformed. But either way he's at least aware that there are some restrictions on pulling a large number of conductors into a conduit. Reminds me of what I hear all the time in the field:

"Grounds don't count for raceway fill".
"Yes, they do".
"oh yeah, you're right, they only count as one conductor".
"wrong again, they ALL count for fill".
"Prove it".
 
sandsnow said:
Sounds like he might have part of the story.
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And you supplied the rest of the story, before I could get around to it. I agree completely with your reply.
 
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