9 hot conductors

[Jim W in Tampa]

His race should not matter.For what ever reason the owner hired him as foreman.Since he wants no help then just let him fall on his you know what.As long as he thinks he has all the answers nothing you say will help.Seen his type often.

 

[livanpi]

I think the forman might not be so wrong. say you are running # 12 for 20amp circuits, if you run more than 6 current careing conductors then you have to derate your wire. seing how some guys dont know and dont want to find out what is current careing, the forman might be trying to make things a little fool proof. meaning if its a 3 phace deal you will have 6-hots 2-neutrals and 1-ground=9 more than that and you have to derate.

 

[infinity]

I think the forman might not be so wrong. say you are running # 12 for 20amp circuits, if you run more than 6 current careing conductors then you have to derate your wire. seing how some guys dont know and dont want to find out what is current careing, the forman might be trying to make things a little fool proof. meaning if its a 3 phace deal you will have 6-hots 2-neutrals and 1-ground=9 more than that and you have to derate.

It's likely that in your scenario there would be only 6 CCC's and derating, although required would, have no affect on the conductor ampacity. That's because the neutrals would only be carrying the unbalanced load of the MWBC and would not be counted as CCC's. You could pull in another 4 wire MWBC and still not have derating affect the final conductor ampacity.

6 CCC's
#12 THHN @ 90 degrees C = 30 amps
30 amps * 80% = 24 amps adjusted ampacity

9 CCC's
30 amps * 70% = 21 amps adjusted ampacity

Either way still OK for 20 amp circuits.

 

[neutral]

If you don't like the way the boss wants the work done you should work for someone else. I remember one time a new hire said, thats not the way we did it where I used to work, He was told to go back to where he used to work. When the boss says jump ask how high.

Charlie

 

[e57]

your only allow to run no more than 9 (hot) ungrounded conductors in any raceway, we were all like What? purpose he said was to avoid the heat on the raceway, but i told him it has to do with conductor fill ~ Not to be racism but he's chinese and he needs more education on the nec and to be good lead foremen. ~ How do i provide and explain him about the code for that matter to make him understand in order for me to school him.

I'll be the first to say I stick my foot in my mouth sometimes - and on occassion I'm dead wrong even if only half right.....

What you have here is the same - sure you can run more than 9 hots... But that is not the way the code spells it out.... It is "Current Carrying Conductors" as mentioned in the posts above. And often neutrals can be current carrying as well... Then again maybe that is what he said, and you're misquoting????? As your answer was not right either... And many companies do not like to go over 9 for some simple reasons - a neat little trick of the code tables puts you into up-sizing the wire at 10-20 conductors. Which may - or may not be economically feasible, I can think of a rare few situations it would be at the current price of copper....

As for schooling him.... Try learning the code yourself, and a little bit of tact when it comes to bringing race into the equation. I happen to know electricians of all races and nationalities - and I find that they niether know more or less than the average white shmuck like myself. But often work harder at it....

 

[wawireguy]

It's like Jim W said.. I work for that type of peeps. They don't even want you to talk to them about code.. They know it all and don't need no darn code references.

 

[infinity]

If someone wants to adopt a company standard of maximum 9 conductors in a conduit that's fine. Just seems to me like they're wasting money on half filled conduits. Is derating so difficult that no one on the job can actually figure it out?

 

[brian john]

If you don't like the way the boss wants the work done you should work for someone else. I remember one time a new hire said, that's not the way we did it where I used to work, He was told to go back to where he used to work. When the boss says jump ask how high.

I encourage all my employees and customers for that matter to question anything they feel may not be right, safe, HOT?ENERGIZED, got a better way to do it step forward and speak up son, and the mechanics had better at least listen.

Everybody out there may have a better idea. My guys call me a "Hind Sight Engineer" because I can always find a better way after a job is completed.