9 service disconnects?

[don_resqcapt19]

It seems to me you cant have more than 6 disconnects grouped in one location, unless you have multiple services. Here is what 230.71 says.



We can get debate the first bunch of sentences and the 230.40 exceptions until the cows come home, but the part I bolded seem very clear (except the "grouped in any one location" part ).


So I dont see how your first picture is compliant. Your second picture, looks like they are chunked up into groups of 6 or less so seems ok to me.

You have to provided a definition of grouped. I can very easily see the plan as one group of 3 and one group of 6 and have those nine disconnects. Note that the "not more than six grouped" language does not appear in the 2020 code.

 

[JasonCo]

You have to provided a definition of grouped. I can very easily see the plan as one group of 3 and one group of 6 and have those nine disconnects. Note that the "not more than six grouped" language does not appear in the 2020 code.

They pretty much reward it though in the 2020 version, the way I see it.

230.71(B) Two to Six Service Disconnecting Means. Two to six service disconnects shall be permitted for each service permitted by 230.2 or for each set of service-entrance conductors permitted by 230.40, Exception No. 1, 3, 4, or 5. The two to six service disconnecting means shall be permitted to consist of a combination of any of the following

So if you are allowed multiple service-entrance conductors permitted by 230.40, each service-entrance conductor is allowed two to six service disconnects. That is why you see 20 disconnects per 1 service drop/lateral in half the strip centers in my city.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

They pretty much reward it though in the 2020 version, the way I see it.



So if you are allowed multiple service-entrance conductors permitted by 230.40, each service-entrance conductor is allowed two to six service disconnects. That is why you see 20 disconnects per 1 service drop/lateral in half the strip centers in my city.

The 2020 code has nothing to do with what you see currently installed.

The code has for a very long time allowed up to six service disconnects for each set of service entrance conductors. The only issue is how far apart do disconnects have to be so they are not grouped.

 

[electrofelon]

It says six sets of disconnects. Each set can be up to six. So the hard limit here seems to be thirty-six, if you have a valid application of the qualifying exceptions.

I doubt that is what their intent was, but fair enough.

 

[electrofelon]

You have to provided a definition of grouped. I can very easily see the plan as one group of 3 and one group of 6 and have those nine disconnects. Note that the "not more than six grouped" language does not appear in the 2020 code.

Yes Don, I acknowledge that is a gray area. However, it seems clear to me that there has to be some "reasonable" degree of separation. If you can just arbitrarily chunk up disconnects that are equidistant apart into groups as you see fit, then why even bother talking about groups of disconnects? The CMP seem to like 6, so Im going with 6 feet

 

[jap]

JasonCo it is funny to me, in light of jap's post, that one of those installations appears to have all of the disconnects ahead of the meters, and the other appears to have all the meters ahead of the disconnects.

It is rather comical sense they do require a disconnect ahead of the meter on 480v services.

Jap>

 

[kwired]

It is rather comical sense they do require a disconnect ahead of the meter on 480v services.

Jap>

Usually is unfused and locked by POCO so customer can't tamper with it, and then a "service disconnect" would be on load side of meter.
If anything they lock it because they don't want newer smart meters to get shut off then send false trouble signal to their system monitoring software.

 

[jap]

Yes, but, still a "switch" between the load side of their utility transformer and the line side of the meter.

JAP>

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Yes, but, still a "switch" between the load side of their utility transformer and the line side of the meter.

JAP>

Installed for the safety of the utility workers so they don't have to open the transformer primary to pull a meter. Most utilities only require this for self-contained 480 volt meters.

 

[JasonCo]

Too add, my local POCO doesn't allow for metered disconnects to be considered a service disconnect. Must have a service disconnect on load end of meter regardless.

 

[kwired]

Too add, my local POCO doesn't allow for metered disconnects to be considered a service disconnect. Must have a service disconnect on load end of meter regardless.

Most are like that if they have a supply side disconnect. With the smart meters especially they don't want the supply side shut off other then when servicing the meter, this keeps the communication from that meter active. Shutting it down gives operations center a trouble alert.