A Christmas story!

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davedottcom

davedottcom

Senior Member
It happens every year...In the spirit of Christmas (and Artical 527!), People everywhere go into their attics and basements and dig out Bazillions of miles of strings of Christmas lights and begin their yearly quest. They always seem surprised and quite annoyed that the strings are all knotted up and lots of the bulbs are not working but before long they have them untangled and are ready to start the FUN part! They grab the first string of lights, their 5' aluminum ladder and away they go..."Hmmm, this end of the house looks like a good place to start, sure, there's no outlet for 100 ft. but I'll worry about that once I'm done!" Usually around the time they have plugged about 5 or 6 strands of lights together (End to end) they decide to try them...For a split second they see the lights and then POOF!, they're gone again. Then it happens. They get that "Ohhh yea" look in their eyes, they forgot to "Bypass" the fuse in the lights! A little trick the neighbor showed them last year......"Here's how you fix them there lights of yours Joe...just shove this small bolt into the fuse holder, see that, fits like a glove...problem solved." In minutes the lights are on. He's thankful to have such a knowlegable neighbor and back to work he goes...tack up a string of lights, bypass the fuse, hang a string of lights, bypass the fuse..."This is easy...maybe I should be an electrician?".
Eventually he runs out of strings and begins to think about where he will plug in his "Celebration of Lights". Let's see....Oh Yea, I have one of those screw-in-bulb-socket-to-female-outlet-adaptor-things, Best invention EVER! I'll just unscrew this bulb from the motion detector and I'm all set. Ok, so now I just need to plug it in and I'm done...what's this? What in the heck is going on here? They put the wrong end on this set of lights! I can't plug THIS end into the bulb-socket-adaptor-thingy. It doesn't take long before he's heard saying...."Honey, I'm running down to the depot to buy an extension cord. I need the one with 2 male ends."

Happy Holidays!

Dave
 
Re: A Christmas story!

And whats worse is the helpfull guy at the ------ won't mention there name but its orange will tell them how to make one.Yes it is sad and i am sure it causes lots of fires and electrocutions.Many will use them cheap indoor exstention cords too.What about the gfci ? Scarry ain't it :mad:
 
Re: A Christmas story!

we did a large school remodel one year. In the science classrooms they wanted the lab tables to be energized only at certain times. they had bought some sort of lab table that had prewired outlets along the sides. Since it was a remodel and they had concrete floors, they didn't want to cut the floor and cut a ckt to the lab tables that sat in the middle of the floor. The solution was to provide a cord reel hung on on?the ceiling at each lab table. The cord reels were controlled from a bank of switches at the teachers desks. Per electrical print design, they wanted to put a male end on the cord reel and then plug the male into one of the prewired outlets to engerize the electrical ckt. Wow, designs and prints from a electrical engineer. To make a long story short, we came up with another solution. Actually, I think we put cut in a box and put in a recessed male that paralleled the ckt. The cord drop female then plugged in and energized.
 
Re: A Christmas story!

I would have called that engineer a few names.He has no buisness doing any electrical if he was that stupid.Bad enough when home owners do this.
 
Re: A Christmas story!

This is worth saying from time to time: There are two things that electrical engineers do not learn in school: (1) How to do electrical installation work, and (2) What?s written in the NEC.

So for the record: If I designed it, signed it, and sealed it, and if you are assigned to install it, and if you think it?s wrong, I want you to tell me about it. No need for name calling, I should hope. But there is a need to protect the public. I see that as my job and your job. Neither of us gets the privilege of saying that the other should have done it right. I would far rather spend a few minutes convincing you that I was right, or learning from you that I was wrong, then allowing an unsafe condition to be created.
 
Re: A Christmas story!

Originally posted by charlie b:
This is worth saying from time to time: There are two things that electrical engineers do not learn in school: (1) How to do electrical installation work, and (2) What?s written in the NEC.

So for the record: If I designed it, signed it, and sealed it, and if you are assigned to install it, and if you think it?s wrong, I want you to tell me about it. No need for name calling, I should hope. But there is a need to protect the public. I see that as my job and your job. Neither of us gets the privilege of saying that the other should have done it right. I would far rather spend a few minutes convincing you that I was right, or learning from you that I was wrong, then allowing an unsafe condition to be created.
Click to expand...
Charlie
Please don't take this as quarrelsome but a EE who specs an exposed energized male cord cap as a means of conveying power to a piece of laboratory furniture has no place to hide. Leave the electrical code out of it. I'm not referring to the code violation. Exposed energized parts ought to be a no brainer.
--
Tom H

[ December 12, 2004, 10:48 PM: Message edited by: hornetd ]
 
Re: A Christmas story!

Charlie, I am wondering how do engineers get Code training to do design work? We have some very sharp engineers on this forum who know the Code extremely well. Where did that Code knowledge come from and how do new engineers get the same knowledge? :D
 
Re: A Christmas story!

To: Charlie, you ask the question, "Where do Electrical Engineers get their NEC knowledge,"
I worked for the DuPont Company for 45 years, and four of those years was spent in our Design Group where I was doing design work.
To my knowledge I do not know of any college or university that gives the EE any type of NEC training. The good hard working industrious EE will go to NEC Code updates which comes around every three years. Where I worked, we had a EE manager who would hold in-house code training meetings, to educate his young EE's with the Code.
Also, all of our project work done at our industrial site was inspected by a third-party agency, noted as the AHJ, (authority having jurisdiction).So, you can see if your work is going to be inspected by the AHJ, you had better be knowledgeable about the NEC.
 
Re: A Christmas story!

Charlie, I am wondering how do engineers get Code training to do design work?
Click to expand...
Most of my code training has been on the job training. I learn from the projects I have done, I learn from my mistakes, and I learn from others (especially the people in this forum).

In fact, it is somewhat scary to think how confused I would still be about many parts of the NEC without Mike Holt's online forum.

I suspect most other engineers learn the code the same way.
 
Re: A Christmas story!

I agree with Steve. I had learned a great deal of the code "on the job." Then I found this Forum, and discovered how much I had not yet learned.
 
Re: A Christmas story!

Hi guys-

I also agree with Steve. But sometimes it seems the more I know the less I understand.( Been struggling with ground loops).This forum is excellent and many thanks to everyone. I've been doing electrical now 21 yrs and will NEVER say I know it all.
 
Re: A Christmas story!

I echo the other EEs. My NEC training came strictly from OJT and seminars.

When I took my PE exam there was a single "Code" question. I'm no longer certain about current trends, but I was surprised since at least one of the stated purposes of licensing in every State where I have obtained my license is public safety. In my opinion, the other questions had a tenuous relationship to safety at best.

Over the years I have developed my position that a "professionally engineered" job meets four criteria each subordinate to the previous one(s):

1.) It is safe to the unsuspecting Public.
2.) It is safe to the qualified.
3.) It "does the job" as required.
4.) It is the most cost effective method to achieve the above.

This is why I have argued in other threads that, if someone actually believes that an installation may violate #1 or 2 even if it is permitted (or not prohibited) by the NEC, it cannot be left "as is" especially if that "someone" is a PE.

Item #3 can often be quite bizarre depending on client preferences and specifications, but if I believe it is in conflict with either 1 or 2 and I cannot convince my client to change it, I refuse to certify the design. If #3 is in conflict with #4, I may make some fairly strong suggestions, but in the end the client preference IS the requirement, so it becomes my job to discover the most cost effective way to execute it.

By the same token, it is my opinion that the NEC often exceeds what is actually necessary to achieve #1 & 2; however, it is still a fundamental part of #3 and must be observed. In that case, it is my "professional" responsibility to periodically suggest (Propose) changing the requirements; and failing that, to solicit informed AHJ approval to achieve cost effectiveness.
 
Re: A Christmas story!

What does it say about the talent and intelligence of the engineers on this forum to have built the knowledge that they have of the NEC? To start with no more than a class in college to give them an overview of the Code and to build to the point where they are now is fantastic. I am impressed. :D
 
Re: A Christmas story!

Originally posted by jimwalker:
And whats worse is the helpfull guy at the ------ won't mention there name but its orange will tell them how to make one.
Click to expand...
Dag nab it! 406.6, there, I said it. :D Nobody was going to throw that out there? I was starting to shake...

Sorry, continue... :D
 
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