A GFCI...an FPE panel...AL wire...and the unqualified.....Almost a fire!

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480sparky said:
But who's to say the connection wasn't tight enough to begin with, copper or aluminim notwithstanding?
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The point is that, with the old aluminum alloys used in the 70's, there was no such thing as tight enough. No matter how tight the screws were, normal current made the wires warm enough to expand, and when cooled, were ever-so-slightly looser.

The next normal use of current caused slightly more heat because of the slight looseness, which caused slightly more expansion, slightly more flatness, slightly more looseness, and it just snowballed. Cycling of current caused unavoidable loosening.

There is one plus: now that the wires are flattened a bit, a new tightening takes advantage of the greater surface contact area, and may get a few more years out of the present wiring. But even normal heat will eventually create a new snowball.
 
I have seen a new GFI with tight copper wires melt down.
I think there was a failure in the GFI due to moisture.
If you dissapate 2000 watts in a plastic GFI it will melt!
This thing may have failed internally (shorted).
 
480sparky said:
International Standards Organization equivalent of film speed 3200.
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I will give you a grade of 90%. I am only giving partial credit for that last answer.

ISO does not stand for "International Standards Organization." The name of the group is the "International Organization for Standardization."

The letters don?t match up, you say? Perhaps someone needs to join the EDA (Engineers Against Dyslexia :rolleyes: ), you say? Well, the term ?ISO? is not an acronym.

This is indeed an international organization. They are well aware that any three-letter acronym they might use would be different in each of the languages of each of the countries they serve. So they decided not to use an acronym. But their mission is to make processes EQUAL throughout the world. So they took the Greek word for ?equal,? which is ISOS, and threw away the fourth letter.

This lesson in photographic history brought to you by Charlie the Ace Photographer. My vacation photos at Yellowstone (and other galleries) may be viewed (at no charge, and nothing is for sale) here: http://www.pbase.com/cbeck/ynp_2008&page=all

We now return you to your regularly scheduled forum. ;) :D
 
I don't think that comments, especially to customers, such as, "this house was close to being burned to the ground", are really appropriate since it was really only one shorted out receptacle.

Pig-tailing isn't necessarily the fix all either, as you have simply moved the weak point from the receptacle to the wire nut, which I have seen fail also.

While AL wiring was never really the best way to wire a house, we must remember that many of the houses that are wired this way are 30+ years old and have never had a problem.

As an inspector I get these calls all the time, "the HI says that we have to replace the old FPE panel because it's a fire hazard", "the buyers say that we have to replace the AL wire or they won't buy the house", etc. They should simply note that the house has AL wiring and move on, note that the electrical panel is old and may need to be replaced and move on.

No need to get everyone all riled up.
 
cowboyjwc said:
I don't think that comments, especially to customers, such as, "this house was close to being burned to the ground", are really appropriate since it was really only one shorted out receptacle.

Pig-tailing isn't necessarily the fix all either, as you have simply moved the weak point from the receptacle to the wire nut, which I have seen fail also.

No need to get everyone all riled up.
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1. No comments were ever made to the customer as to the fact that the house almost burned down. If in fact it was at risk of doing so. It was repaired without drama.

2. The splice may fail if not done properly. And as one of the pictures shows the device was clearly not intended to be connected directly to an AL conductor. A detail that someone failed to recognize.

3. No intention here to get folks all rilled up. The fact that simple instuctions were not followed and that it was likely a raplacement performed by someone unqualified to do so is the point. The hole in the box, whether the result of a device failure, improper terminations, failure of the OCPD, or other factors, certainly raises a concern.

It bothers me that property owners, whether knowing so or not, have their buldings, and their tenants at risk.

But we all know why.
 
charlie b said:
We now return you to your regularly scheduled forum. ;) :D
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Charlie thanks for that wealth of knowlege as always.....and the commercial break. :cool:

For the next one, can we get some tunes from you on that Ovation? ;)
 
cowboyjwc said:
Pig-tailing isn't necessarily the fix all either, as you have simply moved the weak point from the receptacle to the wire nut, which I have seen fail also.
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How many Cu/Al approved wire nuts have you seen fail?
 
frizbeedog said:
GFCI Meltdown!

Yes. That was AL wire you saw. What's that symbol on the right? :roll:

DSC00633.jpg
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Doesn't the AL with the circle and line through it mean that this device is NOT for use on AL wire?
 
tkb said:
Doesn't the AL with the circle and line through it mean that this device is NOT for use on AL wire?
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I think it was sarcasm :smile:
frizbeedog said:
Yes. That was AL wire you saw. What's that symbol on the right? :roll:
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If you read on in the OP....
frizbeedog said:
It's not that difficult a task, but unqualified is unqualified.
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It reeks of DIY, handyman, or the truck-slammer-express :grin:
 
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