A question for the engineers

Status
Not open for further replies.
S

sheldon_ace

Member
Location
Owego, NY
I was just wondering what an electrician with considerable experience would do if he wanted to become a PE or EIT. I am getting older and am looking for a less physical more mental job in the electrical industry. I reside in North Carolina, and I was wondering if anyone could give me some tips on a proper path to take.

thanks guys,

Gerry
 
I can tell you that the EIT exam is a 9 hour long stone cold bitch (even in the senior year of Electrical Engineering at a major university). Less than half that took it with me passed. I don't think an electrician (without an engineering degree) would have much chance. The test includes required parts from other engineering disciplines including mechanical, chemical and physics. Sorry to be a downer.

Best of luck.

Mark
 
Become an Engineer! :x
1) The Honorable path. Did you see, "The Last Samurai?" :twisted:
2) Traditional Path: Make the helper(s) do it. 8)
3) The Practical path. Look at your kid's hamster. Tred mil = 85% max HR for 30min twice weekly. :oops:
4) Dirty Old Man path. Join the stretch & twist at 24hrFitness yoga classes. :D
5) 2 thru 4 can be conbined in any order. :wink:
 
I getting too old for this stuff too.

My thoughts are a little different. To learn all the little details to pass an EE exam takes a lot of effort. That is much easier when you are in your early 20s. To try to learn all those details when you are later in life will take a lot of effort and time (do you have that much free time?).

If you have the time and the energy, I say GO FOR IT! Maybe your experience will allow you to take the exam without having to get an EE degree. If that is the case, then you might be able to take the classes that give you the information you need to pass the exam and forget the electives. This will still take a lot of time. Those electives also help round out the education.

Once you get your PE status, where will you get work? While age discrimination is against the law, it does exist. I believe you will have a difficult time obtaining employment. So that leaves self-employment. If that's the route, why not use the skills you have to develop a business that won't physically tax you as much.

Just my thoughts, good luck on your course.
 
As many large projects go in the direction of design-build, and the designer/engineer is out in the field more, you would definitely have the upper hand for that type of work, due to your field knowledge.
Although the first part of the PE exam (FE) is very theoretical, about all types of topics and concepts (not much electrical as it applies to all specialties), you could take several preparatory classes to give you that knowledge if you are a good studier. It only took me twice, and many of my colleagues more than that to pass, but it is doable.
Many states allow field experience to replace portions of the PE education requirements, check with your states professional licensing department.

Good luck, you can do it.
 
It is possible, but as Ron stated the catch is will your state allow experience to replace education. If not game over.
 
Here's a neat thing in Wisconsin. Designer of Engineering Systems. Sort of like a junior PE. The credential allows you to design and stamp electrical drawings.

You can take an exam with less than 8 years experience.

You can write for the credential with 8+ years experience and be over 35yo, with 3 reference letters from PE, Architect, or Designer.

Here's a link
http://www.legis.state.wi.us/rsb/code/a-e/a-e005.pdf
 
How does a designer of engineering systems differ from a PE? From the link, it looked like only certain specialties (e.g., electrical, fire protection) could qualify for this kind of credential. So it would seem that there's no such provision for someone to do civil engineering this way.

Is there anything an electrical PE can do that an electrical designer can't?
 
jeff43222 said:
Is there anything an electrical PE can do that an electrical designer can't?
Click to expand...
Seal and sign an electrical drawing, specification, report, or calculation.

I've not heard of this certification before. But reading through the document from tsea's link, I get the impression that electrical designers can create plans and specs, but that they still must work under the supervision of a licensed PE, and that that PE must still seal and sign the documents.
 
Let me first talk about the process by which degreed engineers become PEs.

In general, a prospective PE must pass two day-long tests. The first can be taken as early as the senior year in college. Passing that test gives you the "Engineer in Training" certificate (sometimes called "Engineering Intern"). The second test generally cannot be taken until a person has had at least four years of experience.

The application process includes the requirement that the experience be documented in some way (letters from employers, for example, or even submitted samples of your work), and that your abilities be attested to by your supervisor(s) or others familiar with your work. There is generally a requirement that some of the letters of recommendation (this might just be a form that is filled in by a supervisor, rather than a formal letter) be submitted by persons who are themselves PEs.

One common and basic requirement is that before you are allowed to even take the test, you must submit all this paperwork, it must be reviewed, and the "Board" must agree that you have the credentials to become licensed (in the event that you happen to pass the test). In other words, you must be granted permission to take the test. That is because once the test is passed, the license is granted. So the review of your background and experience must take place before you take the test.

Each state will have its own rules for a person who does not have an engineering degree to get a PE. Some amount of experience might be credited, as a substitute for the college degree. Some amount of experience might be credited, as a substitute for taking one or both of the exams. You can make your way to your state's requirements by starting at www.ncees.org.
 
charlie b said:
jeff43222 said:
Is there anything an electrical PE can do that an electrical designer can't?
Click to expand...
Seal and sign an electrical drawing, specification, report, or calculation.

I've not heard of this certification before. But reading through the document from tsea's link, I get the impression that electrical designers can create plans and specs, but that they still must work under the supervision of a licensed PE, and that that PE must still seal and sign the documents.
Click to expand...

Not entirely true. A Designer can seal, sign drawings specifications reports and calculations.

Designers can and do work outside of the supervision of PE, EE, Arch, etc. I don't know the history of the source of Designer and I hesitate to speculate.

If you checked the docs then you should know Designers have all but the formal engineering training, although some do. Like I stated early, it's like a junior PE, but can only do certain disciplines.
 
tshea said:
Not entirely true. A Designer can seal, sign drawings specifications reports and calculations. . . . If you checked the docs then you should know Designers have all but the formal engineering training. . . .
Click to expand...
I had nothing to go on other than what was in the document to which you gave the link. On the bottom right of page two, it gives the limitations of a designer's authority. It says they can prepare documents, but says nothing about sealing and issuing. I have no other facts to go by.

When a PE seals and signs a document, it is an assertion that the document was prepared by the PE or under that PE's supervision. Therefore, the PE is taking legal responsibility for its contents. Are you saying that an electrical designer can make the same assertion, and take the same legal responsibility? That would be a new concept to me. But then, I have allowed my WI PE license to lapse, and don't expect to need to understand this WI law anymore.
 
Charlie, the answer is yes.

When a PE seals and signs a document, it is an assertion that the document was prepared by the PE or under that PE's supervision. Therefore, the PE is taking legal responsibility for its contents. Are you saying that an electrical designer can make the same assertion, and take the same legal responsibility?
Click to expand...

Designers have stamps bearing their name, number, city, state, and the stamp has DESIGNER on it. Designers that practice carry E&O insurance rider. Those who just "have" the license, don't.

My understanding is the license is useless outside of Wisconsin. In fact, several people from other states have also said they have not heard of it.

I think the best use of the license is to complete and submit lighting worksheets to the state for the energy code.
 
Sheldon, as usual, may I suggest a slightly different take on your request for ideas. Going the engineering in training route seems to me to be a really hard haul for anyone who is older, but if you want something badly enough you can do it. What about looking into project management? Not just the glorified title given some foreman to motivate him more, but true systems project management. Generally, a two year construction management degree can get your foot in the door, and you already have the field background that can be a great added asset. I can suggest two really good texts, one is long and detailed sort of like the Electricians Handbook, and the other is shorter but no less a difficult subject. #1 - "Project Management" by Harold Kerzner PH.D. The other shorter is "The Critical Path Method"Self Study Text by Jose D Mitrani P.E. There are plenty of other books written also, but I have those two so I put that out to you. Try reading about the subject and see if it might interest you.
 
How about a twist on the original question?

Some electricians already have accredited BSEE degrees. I know of a few, and I'm included in that group myself. Would it be worthwhile for us to take the FE and pursue engineering employment and PE licensure?
 
Gerry,
You can do whatever you set your mind to. In addition to that, if you just chip away at things, you'll get there before you know it. 4,5,6,...10 years pass before you know it. If you never start, you'll find yourself ten years down the road, looking back, saying "i could've finished by now." If you chip away at it, in ten years you'll say "that wasn't so bad."

I teach preparation courses for the PE exam. I've had people in my class in their fifties and sixties who have passed the exam.

Go for it,
Eric Stromberg, P.E.
 
macmikeman said:
What about looking into project management? Not just the glorified title given some foreman to motivate him more, but true systems project management. Generally, a two year construction management degree can get your foot in the door..
Click to expand...
Did a stint with Duke Engineering as a scheduler. The real Proj.Mgrs in the field had eons of highly specific experience. This experience was the leverage we temps & foreign nationals did not have; we had no benefits, were paid dirt, and were turned over frequently. Our Eng.degree's & certs were used for calc's to draw prints.

The most overqualified people were offered the lowest pay, until experience or other leverage forced a civilized wage. Field promotion of formen to project managers was done internally, with later orientation of Project planing software & principles.

10 years ago, Monsterjobs.com, BS schools and degrees were more popular than Jesus Christ, and much less usefull. I never saw outside Proj. Mgmt. credentials preferred over promoting within, and wont pay for another shool unless there's a guaranteed payoff.

As long as temps, internships, apprenticeships, lack of citizenship, and other indentured servatude remains available to mgmt., I believe civilized treatment requires some kind of leverage or experience that makes you precious.

I am learning from the community on this forum, how to develop that leverage, both for hire, and or for myself.
 
I happened to have dinner last night at the home of a retired PE. I discussed this idea with him, and he said there wasn't much demand in the market for more electrical PEs.

Any PEs out there care to comment on this?
 
Jeff,
I would definitely disagree. Just looking in our local paper here at home, there are more than a 1/2 dozen ads for positions. Also consider that many positions are filled via word of mouth and not advertised in the newspaper.
The company that I work for is looking for 6 or so in the country.
 
Well, I suppose it couldn't hurt (too much) to take the FE/EIT in October and at least have it under my belt in case I want to pursue that kind of employment.

In the meantime, my EC business has gotten a lot busier of late, so at least I won't have to worry about the bank taking my house while I study.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top