a troubleshooting exercise

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gar

Senior Member
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Occupation
EE
080921-1558 EST

Last Wednesday I received a call from a process engineer about an electrical failure on a pinion preload adjust machine. This is a machine that automatically runs the nut onto a pinion on an axle assembly until the correct bearing preload is achieved. Actually what is measured is the pinion bearing drag torque via a 30 # force transducer at a fixed radius from the pinion centerline and it is assumed that this is a fairly accurate estimate of the axial force on the bearings. At correct drag torque, 20 #-in, the loadcell force is about 7 #.

This particular machine was manufactured in 1978 and probably began production that year. There is a large gear box on the machine that rotates the pinion at one of two speeds, 90 or 30 RPM, and simultaneously rotates the pinion nut at one of three speeds relative to the pinion and controlled by two electromechanical clutches. The net result is that the pinion nut can rotate at about 6, 2, 1, 1/3, 0 RPM relative to the pinion.

The clutches are a standard product modified for this application. These are each about 80 # and worth maybe $2000 each. The work to change clutches is about 3 men, different trades, for 4 to 8 hours. Therefore, you do not change a clutch unless there is good evidence of the need.

This gear box has been on the machine for the last 30 years. The two speed drive motor has never been replaced. However, the clutches will have been changed a number of times because of internal spring failures. The clutch type and its modification has been used in this kind of application since 1973. In that time I do not believe there has ever been a failure of a clutch coil. A machine cycle time is about 24 seconds. On average during this machine cycle the clutches probably cycle 2 to 3 times. At 120 parts per hour and maybe 4000 hours per year we have about 500,000 parts per year. For 30 years maybe 15,000,000 parts have run thru the machine.

The clutches are somewhat over 100 ohms and are powered from a full wave bridge circuit whose input is 120 V and the clutch coil has an RC snubber circuit in parallel. P&B KUP type relays are between the bridge rectifier and the clutch coil. On breaking the circuit the coil voltage rises to a peak of maybe 1000 V.

This is background for the troubleshooting exercise.

The call I received from the process engineer indicated that this machine's fast clutch would blow the clutch power supply fuse when the fast clutch turned on. This fuse is a 1.5 A AGC (standard blow) and never blows unless there is a short in the wiring or two clutches come on at once. Note: the information I received by phone is at least secondhand. Things are usually different when you get to the job.

The plant electrician had tried various tests and could not find any shorts and the clutch coil resistance was normal.

None of this information points to a particular cause. At this point I doubted that the clutch was the problem. This of course was remote by telephone. Secondhand information may be quite different than what is available from a firsthand source.

These days you do not go on a service call without a purchase order. Finally got a PO late Thursday. On Friday I went to the plant.

I had an electrician, the one who had been working on the machine, a job setter, and a machine repairman to work with me.

The clutch power supply in this station has never been replaced in the 30 years. However, the plug in relays have been replaced many times, probably 2 to 3 times per year. The bridge rectifier follows the fuse and is not the problem because it is powered all the time. All diodes were good. We rechecked the clutch coil resistances and these were 105 or 106 ohms and steady.

Next put a clamp-on DC current probe around the lead to the fast clutch wire. Energized the relay and the fuse did not blow and the current was in the ballpark of the expected value.

Next we disconnected the clutch coil from the power supply. This machine does not have a manual means to rotate the drive motor. The ohmmeter was connected to the leads to the clutch, and we used clip leads to energize the motor contactor. The first thing I noticed was squeaking from the gear box. This is not good, likely a bad bearing. With the spindle rotating we noticed a fluctuation of the clutch resistance. On the electrician's Fluke we could see changes of 85 to 127 ohms. By the way, when talking with the electrician he indicated that the fuse did not always blow immediately when the fast clutch was energized. This was critical information I did not get over the phone and thus I had not believed the clutch was the problem.

So now we know there is a problem only when the motor is rotating. The next step was to disconnect the clutch leads at the last point before the clutch. Connected the ohmmeter to these leads on top of the machine. Reran the test with rotation. Same varying result. Thus, problem is in the gear box.

Next the oiler drains the oil from the gear box. The machine repairman then has to remove the front cover plate. After removal he felt the residual oil and noted there was a lot of grit. Immediately this was an explanation for the squeak.

Without rotation there is no variation in the coil resistance reading, it is at 106 ohms. Then the electrician by hand moves the clutch plates and the resistance varies. Clearly the problem is in the clutch assembly. I looked at the clutch in a hard to see location and there were metal chips clinging to the outside of the clutch. Note: there is considerable residual magnetization of the clutch parts. We can expect that these metal chips have gotten inside the clutch assembly.

The end result. Clearly this whole gear box has to be rebuilt, and new clutches are required. Once there are metal chips throughout the assembly there is no easy and reliable solution except to replacing everything.

My guess is the coil in the clutch has not been damaged, but that chips have gotten into the leads going into the clutch. This we could not see because they are in a conduit. But this may in fact mean that the coil is damaged because these leads are potted into the coil.

My initial conclusion by phone that the clutch was not the problem was based on prior history and that the implication was that the fuse immediately blew when the clutch relay closed.

See my website http://beta-aa.com/pa_plot.html for a plot of nut torque and preload torque for an adjustment cycle.

.
 

chris kennedy

Senior Member
Location
Miami Fla.
Occupation
60 yr old tool twisting electrician
realolman said:
I read all that for nuthin':smile:
I always enjoy gar's posts. A unique and refreshing perspective. This thread is mechanical in nature. Interesting to anyone who uses/twists tools.

Thanks Gordon, sorry I took the easy shot!

Now back to the thread.
 

ivsenroute

Senior Member
Location
Florida
It sounds like a decent troubleshooting flow method with the limited knowledge that I have about the situation based on the descriptive post.

I am now curious on how much time this took what hours were billed for the troubleshooting.

??
 

quogueelectric

Senior Member
Location
new york
When equipment is that used doesnt it may good sence to just replace the entire unit??? It is like rebuilding a transmision only to fix the broken part for 3,000 in labor and 25 bucks in parts only to fail 1 month later for annother 3,000 in labor when the next 25 buck part fails.
 

wptski

Senior Member
Location
Warren, MI
quogueelectric said:
When equipment is that used doesnt it may good sence to just replace the entire unit??? It is like rebuilding a transmision only to fix the broken part for 3,000 in labor and 25 bucks in parts only to fail 1 month later for annother 3,000 in labor when the next 25 buck part fails.
I know exactly what "gar" is refering to here. It's not like some little tiny gearbox, it's huge. A huge cast iron housing, all kinds of bearing pockets, shafts, oil seals, etc. They just don't have spares to buy. One rebuilds machines not replace them when they break.
 

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
I worked in a plating plant where we observed this fluctuating clutch resistance (Warner) phenomenon from time to time. In our case, it was never metal flake contamination, but the actual mist from the air in the plant could be semi-conductive. Exactly like gar's observation, the resistance was good when static, but all over the place when rotating.
 

gar

Senior Member
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Occupation
EE
080921-2013 EST

This thread is about continuing education and therefore it seemed appropriate to provide a discussion on a slightly unexpected troubleshooting result. At the start it appeared to be electrical, and in the end it was electrical but caused by a mechanical failure.

The whole machine weighs about 8000 to 12000 # and the gear box is maybe between 2000 and 4000 #. This originally cost about $300,000 in 1978. You do not junk these and replace it with a new one without good reason.

Travel time was about 4 hours and time at the plant about 5 hours. Time at the plant is function of many things, but primarily a function of the problem and availability of people. Plants are running very lean these days.

The best way to repair this gearbox is to remove it from the machine base and work on it in the shop.

These machines are built so heavy that if new technology comes along to do the same job that the machines will be rebuilt.

The parts transfer into the machine on a non-synchronous floating pallet system. Each pallet is several hundred pounds and the part at this stage may range from 40 to 90 pounds depending upon the axle size. Simultaneous transfer of one pallet out of the station and another in is about 5 seconds. Except it is a little longer for the pinion preload stations because there are two stations in series in the line to meet line thruput rate. Therefore, each station gets every other pallet.

The length of time this machine has been in service attests to its durability.

.
 

wptski

Senior Member
Location
Warren, MI
gar said:
080921-2013 EST
The best way to repair this gearbox is to remove it from the machine base and work on it in the shop.
gar:

Past practice or the way they've been doing it for years is, just remove the top cover and gut it right there. It's the wrong way and the hardest too!:rolleyes:
 

wptski

Senior Member
Location
Warren, MI
mdshunk said:
I worked in a plating plant where we observed this fluctuating clutch resistance (Warner) phenomenon from time to time. In our case, it was never metal flake contamination, but the actual mist from the air in the plant could be semi-conductive. Exactly like gar's observation, the resistance was good when static, but all over the place when rotating.
Single armature plate type? These are multi-disk clutch packs. Not sure who makes them?
 

gar

Senior Member
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Occupation
EE
080921-2212 EST

bill:

I suggested to them to remove the head since every bearing and seal in the head must be replaced. It is much harder to work up in the air vs down on a pair of saw horses for this kind of major rebuild.

For information on the clutch see
http://www.cjmco.com/products_electrical.htm#EMA

After modification these clutches were good for about 600 #-ft. Before modification quite a bit higher. Pinion nut torque is generally below 450 #-ft.

.
 

wptski

Senior Member
Location
Warren, MI
gar said:
080921-2212 EST

bill:

I suggested to them to remove the head since every bearing and seal in the head must be replaced. It is much harder to work up in the air vs down on a pair of saw horses for this kind of major rebuild.

For information on the clutch see
http://www.cjmco.com/products_electrical.htm#EMA

After modification these clutches were good for about 600 #-ft. Before modification quite a bit higher. Pinion nut torque is generally below 450 #-ft.

.
gar:

You can suggest all you want, been there, did that! Production runs that place, they'll tell how, when, where and how long it'll take you. I'd be surprised if they pulled the entire head.

The case shim selector bottom drive is a common job. Had one scheduled for the weekend but production decides to work on it between shifts. The rotating shaft gets stuck almost all the way out. It's the end on my shift and the shaft is sticking up in the air. The line can't run now and had to wait for the next shift repair crew to follow up.

Things like that happen. They want us to perform magic while they are at lunch or on their breaks!:rolleyes:
 

jnsane84

Senior Member
wptski said:
gar:

You can suggest all you want, been there, did that! Production runs that place, they'll tell how, when, where and how long it'll take you. I'd be surprised if they pulled the entire head.

The case shim selector bottom drive is a common job. Had one scheduled for the weekend but production decides to work on it between shifts. The rotating shaft gets stuck almost all the way out. It's the end on my shift and the shaft is sticking up in the air. The line can't run now and had to wait for the next shift repair crew to follow up.

Things like that happen. They want us to perform magic while they are at lunch or on their breaks!:rolleyes:

I work in a manufacturing facility....I know the feeling. I've asked on several occassions if they read on my resume that I perform magic tricks or possess supernatural powers because I get stupid questions like...."Oh you have to rebuild that entire motor? How long does that take? 30 mins? an hour maybe? I gotta run parts." Very frustrating at times but I still love my job.
 

gar

Senior Member
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Occupation
EE
080922-1803 EST

bill:

The feed back I received today is that next week they will pull the head. So we will see. Production is low on the line thus running with only one preload station is not a major problem other than cost. About half as many parts per hour as with two stations. If the head is not fixed, then you continue at the lower throughput.

Yes, production does control, but if you can do something to improve throughput and or quality (fewer rejects), then you get their support.

.
 

wptski

Senior Member
Location
Warren, MI
gar said:
080922-1803 EST

bill:

The feed back I received today is that next week they will pull the head. So we will see. Production is low on the line thus running with only one preload station is not a major problem other than cost. About half as many parts per hour as with two stations. If the head is not fixed, then you continue at the lower throughput.

Yes, production does control, but if you can do something to improve throughput and or quality (fewer rejects), then you get their support.

.
gar:

I could tell you a very long story but I won't, just the punchline!:D At one time I worked in a department that would add the scrap to their good count. When they got a gaging machine that printed a report, they couldn't hide the junk anymore.:rolleyes:

A while back, they were going to shut down Line #1 to retool but gas prices probably changed all that.
 

wptski

Senior Member
Location
Warren, MI
mattsilkwood said:
my question is where did the metal shavings come from and do they have some sort of pm schedule that should have caught this?
Metal particles can come from a bad bearing, gear, plates in the clutch, etc., probably from lack of oil. Once you see metal shavings, it's too late for PM. I've always stated that PM starts at the operator/jobsetter level. Can't tell you how many times a new/rebuilt gearbox has burned up because of no oil! A PM program for mechanical devices is non-exsistant at that plant!

Ah! Just before I retired they were getting back into IR imaging of panels and ordering new IR imagers too.
 

mattsilkwood

Senior Member
Location
missouri
wptski said:
Metal particles can come from a bad bearing, gear, plates in the clutch, etc., probably from lack of oil. Once you see metal shavings, it's too late for PM. I've always stated that PM starts at the operator/jobsetter level. Can't tell you how many times a new/rebuilt gearbox has burned up because of no oil! A PM program for mechanical devices is non-exsistant at that plant!

Ah! Just before I retired they were getting back into IR imaging of panels and ordering new IR imagers too.
i cant believe that more plants dont do regular pm, even if it is just to check the oil. its not even a question of downtime, alot of this stuff can and should be checked out while the machine is running. one plant i work at started a pm program about two years ago, they take each line down for a shift once a month. i would be scared to say how much thats has saved them but thier downtime is les than half what it was so you can figure it out.
 
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