a troubleshooting exercise

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wptski

Senior Member
Location
Warren, MI
mattsilkwood said:
i cant believe that more plants dont do regular pm, even if it is just to check the oil. its not even a question of downtime, alot of this stuff can and should be checked out while the machine is running. one plant i work at started a pm program about two years ago, they take each line down for a shift once a month. i would be scared to say how much thats has saved them but thier downtime is les than half what it was so you can figure it out.
It's no surprise when your maintainance supervisor's last job was the meat department at the local food chain, shoe saleman or from K-Mart! No longer do maintainence supervisors come from the hourly trades, all that's needed is a college degree.

Years ago they had workers that just oiled but they phased them out and gave that job to the jobsetters. If we rebuild a gearbox off a machine, we're supposed to either add oil ourselves or tag it. At times, it may be easier to fill a gearbox during assembly than add later through a small fill hole!:rolleyes:
 

Besoeker

Senior Member
Location
UK
gar said:
080921-1558 EST
The clutches are somewhat over 100 ohms and are powered from a full wave bridge circuit whose input is 120 V and the clutch coil has an RC snubber circuit in parallel. P&B KUP type relays are between the bridge rectifier and the clutch coil. On breaking the circuit the coil voltage rises to a peak of maybe 1000 V.
An informative and well-written post, if I may say so.
On point above, I can understand the voltage rise when the dc is interupted (e=Ldi/dt). If the P&B contact was put in the supply to the rectifier, the decaying inductive current from the clutch would circulated via the rectifier rather than producing a large voltage spike.
 

gar

Senior Member
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Occupation
EE
080923-1855 EST

Besoeker:

In fact we want the large voltage spike because we want the clutch to dropout as fast as possible. A reversed bias diode across the coil would have a voltage of about 1.5 V and a very long dropout time, relatively speaking.

On one machine we changed to an air clutch to get a better dropout time, but this had pullin time problems. This particular application had bearings with a very unstable build characteristic, and dropout time was more important than the pullin time.

The nut and drag torque plots on my web site were for a front axle with aluminum carrier and Timken bearings. Generally I find the build characteristics of drag torque are better with Timken bearings than other brands, and after build the drag torque remains more stable. Assuming proper lubrication long term drag torque drops off.

The Potter and Brumfield KUP relay has a relatively fast dropout as compared to a machine tool relay with larger contacts, and being a plugin it is easily changed. It is not too expensive. What happens in switching DC is that metal transfers from one contact to the other. This creates a pit in one and a mating conical mound on the other. True there are ways to reduce this transfer, but that is a more complex circuit and less for the electrician to do.

The electronics had relatively few failures, so changing relays every 4 months or so was a useful activity for the electricians.

There are a lot of variations in collapsible spacers and bearings, and generally on most parts we could build within +/-2 #-in at a mean of 22 #-in. long term average, meaning 10 seconds. The specifications for many years have been like 15 to 30 #-in for the adjusted average value at the time of assembly. The drag torque variation at 30 RPM with an 0.3 second averaging time might have a peak to peak excursion of 3 #-in after adjustment of the part and a preceding several second runin of the bearings.

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Strahan

Senior Member
Location
Watsontown, PA
wptski said:
It's no surprise when your maintainance supervisor's last job was the meat department at the local food chain, shoe saleman or from K-Mart! No longer do maintainence supervisors come from the hourly trades, all that's needed is a college degree.

Years ago they had workers that just oiled but they phased them out and gave that job to the jobsetters. If we rebuild a gearbox off a machine, we're supposed to either add oil ourselves or tag it. At times, it may be easier to fill a gearbox during assembly than add later through a small fill hole!:rolleyes:

Amen to that!! At our facility we do not have one maintenance boss that came from a trade. College degree in something not even remotely close. Although we do have a pretty good PM program that of course requires us to work long hours into the weekends. We do have to steer them straight from time to time and let them know there is more to prventive maintenance then checking oil in gear boxes you throw the whole electrical scheme at them and they just say ok do whatever you need to!;)
 

Besoeker

Senior Member
Location
UK
gar said:
080923-1855 EST

Besoeker:

In fact we want the large voltage spike because we want the clutch to dropout as fast as possible. A reversed bias diode across the coil would have a voltage of about 1.5 V and a very long dropout time, relatively speaking.
Yes, I did wonder if speed was a critical factor. If the clutch coil has a high L/R ratio, I agree drop out time would be much longer if the current was allowed to flywheel via the rectifier.
And, as you say, changing a plug-in relay has the merits of being quick, simple, and cheap.
 
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