A well of a question

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: A well of a question

As for a separate well up here your looking at 300 to 700 feet at $10 a foot.
As for separate pumps I don't think you can get 2 pumps in 1 well case.
As for a separate service I would agree is best but the up front cost of a 10x10 building and service with heat is to much for them. Plus the POCO has a min charge per month per service.

[ February 02, 2006, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: wyatt ]
 
Re: A well of a question

Ok heres a solution:

Install a fire alarm water flow switch on each side of the "T" where the pumped water branches off to each home...

Whichever WF switch detects flow activates that home's pump relay.

The making of either pump relay will electrically prevent the other house's relay from making.
 
Re: A well of a question

Oh, a fun control design project. Perhaps an automatic source transfer using a cycling system to balance use. Each time the pump starts, it moves to the other service. Or, how about flow switches so that the house using the water has the pump switched over to its service. This might work well, especially if there is a pressure tank.
 
Re: A well of a question

"2 houses one well. They would like to power the well from both houses. They do not want a well house service. A transfer switch at the pump would allow them to select house 1,off,or house 2. My question is there any problems ( NEC or design ) with the EGC's bonded together or should they be isolated."

I see a design problem with bonding the EGCs. The utility transformer center tap would be connected to 2 service entry points, past a couple ground rods, then bolted together. Who knows what that ground loop might bring? Even bringing the grounds from both properties near each other in the yard, might bring surprises.

At the same time, imagine panel #1 with a neutral grounded properly at only one point. But then bring that point over to the neutral at panel #2, and it seems to me that 230.2 'supplied by only one service' is violated. Any neutral voltages, spikes, etc, would be bolted into the other panel. Am I seeing this wrong?

Practically, running separate water meters seems like an option you can present to them. Another is to let them buy and install a cheap submetering (ezmeter.com, $200) setup. I don't know how much water meters cost, I've never used those little boxes, but the little meter would cost them much less than putting in extra pump wiring (if I did it :p .) Are they disconnecting the main when they're away? Or just trying to figure out electrical cost? The cord connected idea would work fine, if running two outdoor lines costs less than their other choices...
 
Re: A well of a question

Thanks for the input. By egc I meant equipment ground not electrode. The way this would work is to run a branch circuit out to the well from both houses. there they would be put into a 2P transfer switch. then to a pressure switch that controls the pump. My concern was the ground from 2 deferant services being tided together. The plug ideal would fix that but I don't know how the ware on the plugs would hold up. I'm thinking 3p transfer switch.
 
Re: A well of a question

I feel that a transfer system would be idiotic. What happens around Christmas when both houses have their families visiting and two showers going in each house. When both pressure tanks get low the transfer is going to get out of control trying to keep the pressure up.

I think there should be a separate electrical meter, with water meters to each house.
 
Re: A well of a question

Various SO (SOWA, etc) cords with twistlocks work fine here. Have used them daily, but where they're out of the sun. It doesn't freeze here. Heavy SO cords are very durable, but some of the types are very hard to work with.
"they want the cheapest way to get this to work."
It looks to me as if a transfer, interlocked delta/wye, or almost any other design, would cost much more than a cord setup. Depending on which equipment, there would be the electricity cost to hold it in one position. I'd rough guess it, just to let my customers know just how much this option would be. At the same time, connecting the 'ground' from one house to the next just doesn't sound right.
 
Re: A well of a question

Sparks both house will get water at the same time. 3 tanks one at the well with pressure switch and one at each house just a storage tank. It's just a matter of witch houses supples the pump with power. As I have said this is not the best option but the lowest cost. My big concern was the interlinking of equipment grounds. The best would be separate service with water meters but :roll:
 
Re: A well of a question

If they both use same drop pipe and split to own pump there will be no problem.This might not work on a jet pump.Why not just let one supply the power 1 month and switch off each month.Or 1 just pay the other some reasonable amount per month for there share.You could spend thousands over a $10 a month electric bill used by this pump.
 
Re: A well of a question

For a weekend get away do you really see useing more then 10 to 20 dollars of power a month? Vs.
3 to 5 thousand min. to drill, pipe and wire a new well. After the new well has been installed the price of power for the pump will still be the same cost. You would think family could get along better then that.

J.LOckard
 
Re: A well of a question

They probally want to shut off the pump when they leave,in case something happens the pump doesn't keep pumping water until the next weekend vacation.

That being the case,whichever family shows up next,would like to turn the water on from their own house. I don't think that the water or the electic is the big deal.
 
Re: A well of a question

In that case, a simple X-10 setup, with a heavy-appliance module (or a module and a relay) at the pump and a transmitter in each house, would give either occupant complete control, and without even having to walk to the pumphouse.
 
Re: A well of a question

If the idea is to just be able to turn on and off the well from either cabin why not 2 start/stop stations and a simple relay set up.How about going to the well and shut it off from the disconnect,after all a trip to the woods usually includes a walk in the woods anyway. ;)
 
Re: A well of a question

Wyatt,

If metal pipe is used for the water supply lines to each house, a ground loop already exists. I'm not sure if 250.58 is implemented at the site but I would tie the EGC together.

frank
 
Re: A well of a question

The following item appears in the most recent edition of the monthly newsletter published by the Washington State Department of Labor and Industries:
Can One Water Well, Septic, or Other System be Used to Supply Two Dwellings?

The NEC does not prohibit the sharing of plumbing or other mechanical systems between dwellings. However, it does have specific requirements for the electrical circuits providing power to those systems. The basic requirements of 210.25 have been in place since the 1980's.

NEC 210.25 says, "Branch circuits in dwelling units shall supply only loads within that dwelling unit or loads associated only with that dwelling unit. . . ." In the case of two or more dwelling units sharing a common well, septic, or other mechanical system, the electrical supply to these systems cannot come from any of these dwelling units. The system must be supplied from a separate source of power, not from one of the dwellings.
Click to expand...
Just thought that might be interesting.
 
Re: A well of a question

I just received this NEC 210.25 interpretation that sheds some light on the problem:

NEC 210.25 says, ?Branch circuits in dwelling units shall supply only loads within that dwelling unit or loads associated only with that dwelling unit?? In the case of two or more dwelling units sharing a common well, septic, or other mechanical system, the electrical supply to these systems cannot come from any of the individual dwelling units. The system must be supplied from a separate source of power,
not from one of the dwellings.
 
Re: A well of a question

Slide rule guy: Any chance you got that from the same place I did? It sounds a bit familair. :D
 
Re: A well of a question

I got the info indirectly, but it appears the same L&I source. Interesting that though the rule has been in NEC for 20 years, it has only recently been applied to a common well pump. My electric utility has numerous circumstances where small communities (say 2 or 3 residents) share a common well. More than once a resident has moved out and neighbors lost their water service.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top