AC Cable terminations

Status
Not open for further replies.
Ryan
The forum is a good source of info. One of the reasons is just what you are doing... which is digging in for accurate info. Each person here has a "pet peeve" and puts in his/her 2cents to help provide good info. I am curious, but would not be surprised to see different claims from different manufacturers.
 
iwire said:
ryan_618 said:
I have e-mails out to the manufacturer about this right now. I will post them when I receive them.
Click to expand...

Thanks :)


Are you staying dry or are you swimming today ? 8)
Click to expand...

Dry and cold, I'm afraid. We had a storm hit the other day that was amazing though. I was inside doing a final, and when I pulled up it blue skies and dry roads. Looked out the window ten minutes later and couldn't see farther than 100' from the blizzard :cry:

I am really put off by this whole thing though. Phil Simmons is writing a document for NECA write now (or perhaps he is done) about this very thing. I am told that the document will suggest wrapping the bonding wire around the sheath...now I realize that that doesn't make it a requirement, but I am puzzled as to why he would write that. I was in contact with a friend from UL yesterday that is at a meeting with Phil right now, and he will speak to him about it. He also was put off by the idea.

The info that I posted earlier was from the manufacturer, however. I e-mailed them, and the gentleman that I wrote to told me to "say hi to Mike". I forwarded the E-mail to Mike, and his response was "I would tell people not to buy that product". I have seen Mike do thatin the past, and he got things changed simply by saying that.

Again, I will keep you all in the loop as I find out more. :)
 
iwire said:
ryan_618 said:
UL Disagrees with you. :)
Click to expand...

That does not mean Don is incorrect.

UL seems to have their head planted where the sun don't shine on the classified breaker issue. :lol:

I would say yes and no. Yes because the instructions on the panelboard does not take into account another manufacturer's breaker. No because the classified breakers are tested in the panelboards they are intended to be installed in.

sandsnow said:
If I go along with you here, then how do I know which parts of the instructions are valid
Click to expand...

Have you ever seen AC cable arrive that had instructions from the manufacturer?

I have seen MC tags that say do not use AL jacket MC with set screw connectors.

Aren't UL required instructions and labeling required to be shipped with the product?

Yes and it's source of frustration when they don't.

Just like the required markings on terminals or the required markings on conductors?

My point is this.

If the UL listing requires the bonding strip to be back wrapped or just folded back instructions explaining that would be required to be shipped with the product.
Click to expand...


I think there is a big disconnect between the engineers who write up these requirements (when the product is first evaluated) and the field rep's who go out and check on manufacturing. The field rep is to ensure a product continues to be manufactured the same as when it was submitted. That would include the instructions.
Also a disconnect between the people at the factory who get the stuff listed and the people who actually manufacturer it. They change something that is not allowed by the agreement to apply the UL label and it is missed by Field Rep.
 
[quote="ryan_618

The info that I posted earlier was from the manufacturer, however. I e-mailed them, and the gentleman that I wrote to told me to "say hi to Mike". I forwarded the E-mail to Mike, and his response was "I would tell people not to buy that product". I have seen Mike do thatin the past, and he got things changed simply by saying that.
[/quote]

That letter in your first post????? :shock:
What is in there that would tell you that the AFC product is not OK???

The people who are at fault here are UL in my opinion. If UL is so big on instructions being part of the listing, then the Field Rep's should be reading them.

Oh Ryan , BTW , Marilou is a girls name. :p

I'm floored that Mike would slam the manufacturer, when it is UL that let things get out of control. UL is supposed to be checking this stuff.

What he should say if he wants to make an impact in the industry is to say something to the effect of the UL label has lost some of it's integrity.
 
ryan_618 said:
How is UL at fault if the manufacturer says something stupid?
Click to expand...

Here's the second sentence from the reply you received:

However, in the absence of any guidance from the NEC or the U.L. standard that the cable is manufactured to, we are left with best trade practices

Seems to me UL dropped the ball if that statement is true. There is no guidance in 320.100 either.

She explained how they came up with the instructions. Again, if UL says the installation instructions are part of the listing and labeling, then they should be checking them.

So the question becomes:
Are they checking the instructions?

Maybe Don is correct in his comment that some instructions are not part of the evaluation process.
 
Gentlemen: Please be advised that AFC is not REQUIRING anything. We simply stated what some of the best trade practices were/are. Let's not get carried away putting words in our mouth. Further, at the end of the day, AFC always maintains that the authority having jurisdiction over an installation has the final word along with the NEC.



Thank you,

Marilou Newell

National Marketing and Technical Services Manager

AFC Cable Systems, Inc.
Click to expand...
 
Hmmm.... I was wondering when the notice of legal disclaimer would be posted. I knew it was only a matter of time before the manufacturers would back pedal...
 
So, according to the "backpedal letter", there are no instructions.

It gets better and better.

Are we left to conclude that UL does not care what you do with the bonding strip??
 
UL never did care what you did with the bonding strip. If anyone does care, it would be the manufacturer. This particular manufacturer suggests bending it over in its "installation guidlenines", but not in its instructions. :D
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top