Accessible (as applied to wiring methods)

Accessible (as applied to wiring methods)


  • Total voters
    10

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Electrician
I have often wondered if a JB mounted in a wall cavity (or ceiling) behind an old work cut-in gem box considered accessible?
1.) I think it would help if you put all of, or more of the question in the poll area. There's not enough info just looking at the poll.

2.) Is the cut-in box the JB or are you saying there is another box behind the cut-in?
 
I have found JBs above recessed cans. I am not referring to the box on the fixture, but a separate box.

I as not a happy camper.
I have found them there also.

Lots of codes don't make us happy campers....has nothing to do with whether it is legal or not.

Your example is one of the reasons I question the legality of a JB (mounted) in wall cavity accessed by removing a old work cut-in box.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I have found them there also.

Lots of codes don't make us happy campers....has nothing to do with whether it is legal or not.

Your example is one of the reasons I question the legality of a JB (mounted) in wall cavity accessed by removing a old work cut-in box.
I would sure hope you are not left with a 2.5 x 3 inch opening to try to access a 8x8 junction box through if it was going to be done.
 
The JB on a 4" can is considered accessible from below by dropping the can itself (and they're real fun to work on).

makes me want to know if it is legal to install, say, a "handi-box", properly secured to a joist, next to where one of those installed from below fan bar/boxes are. or a handi-box installed behind a cut in box.

Not saying it would be easy to work on. Not saying anyone would ever know it's there, not even saying it would be a good "norm", but, is it legal? Is it considered accessible by NEC codes?

I've worked on a 6 piece, 2 story "pre-fab" home where every receptacle and switchbox was a cut-in box and I was able access any of those bays to add and/or remove wiring by removing and reinstalling the boxes without any effect on the building finish.
 

north star

Senior Member
Location
inside Area 51
:cool:


Regarding the legality of this type install, that would be
up to the AHJ [ see Article 90.4, `08 NEC ].

"makes me want to know if it is legal to install, say, a "handi-box", properly secured to a joist, next to where one of those installed from below fan bar/boxes are. or a handi-box installed behind a cut in box.

Not saying it would be easy to work on. Not saying anyone would ever know it's there, not even saying it would be a good "norm", but, is it legal? Is it considered accessible by NEC codes?"
If any part of the building finish has to be removed; however
small, then, IMO, the handy box would not be accessible,
according the the definition in Article 100, ...such as the
Example that
**kwired** provided.

:cool:
 
:cool:


Regarding the legality of this type install, that would be
up to the AHJ [ see Article 90.4, `08 NEC ].

If any part of the building finish has to be removed; however
small, then, IMO, the handy box would not be accessible,
according the the definition in Article 100, ...such as the
Example that
**kwired** provided.

:cool:
Reread the definition:

From 2008 NEC

Accessible (as applied to wiring methods). Capable of being removed or exposed without damaging the building structure or finish or not permanently closed in by the structure or finish of the building.

Maybe the question becomes, what is considered "permanently closed in" by the finish"?

I can remove a switch, cover and an old work box to access a "buried" JB by removing/loosening 5 screws with no damage to the building structure or finish (depending on the definition of finish).

I have to remove a lamp, a trim ring, and 4 screws to drop a 6" can in order to access the JB.

A recessed can JB is considered accessible when I would consider the can itself and the trim "finish".

It's all just food for thought...Every once in a while over the years I'll start to wonder whether or not it would be code compliant.
 

John120/240

Senior Member
Location
Olathe, Kansas
Reread the definition:

From 2008 NEC

Accessible (as applied to wiring methods). Capable of being removed or exposed without damaging the building structure or finish or not permanently closed in by the structure or finish of the building.

Maybe the question becomes, what is considered "permanently closed in" by the finish"?

I can remove a switch, cover and an old work box to access a "buried" JB by removing/loosening 5 screws with no damage to the building structure or finish (depending on the definition of finish).

I have to remove a lamp, a trim ring, and 4 screws to drop a 6" can in order to access the JB.

A recessed can JB is considered accessible when I would consider the can itself and the trim "finish".

It's all just food for thought...Every once in a while over the years I'll start to wonder whether or not it would be code compliant.
I vote that it would be acceptable code wise. But it is an ignorant installation. In the case of a can light every body should know that to access the connections you need to remove the lamp, trim, three screws to drop the housing.
Using a cut in box behind a fixture only to find another J-Box...what a PITA
 
I vote that it would be acceptable code wise. But it is an ignorant installation. In the case of a can light every body should know that to access the connections you need to remove the lamp, trim, three screws to drop the housing.
Using a cut in box behind a fixture only to find another J-Box...what a PITA

I agree with you.

To date, I've never done it, but, every time I run across a situation where I think, "man this job would be much quicker and easier if I could "bury" a JB", I start to wonder about the legality of the cut-in box situation. Wanted to see what others thought.
 
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