accessible from grade

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Re: accessible from grade

Nuts. Read before I write. Last post was wrong.

The "dwelling unit" has to be at grade, not the door.

So how do we technically know if a dwelling unit is at grade?
 
Re: accessible from grade

George, here's the stupid part, per the wording, the CMP would allow and actually want you to chisel a hole in the deck so you would be standing on dirt for the receptacle to meet the requirement. :D

Roger
 
Re: accessible from grade

Roger, LOL. :D

The thing is, I've seen 8-plexes where there are four units at what I would call grade, and four units above that.

Looking at any corner, the upper units practically share a stoop with their lower neighbor. The upper dwelling unit itself is well above grade, but they have a enclosed stairwell down to an egress door at grade. A baseboard heater heats the stairwell.

So if the upstairs tenant is enjoying a tanning session in the yard, and laying on the grass outside their unit, they are required to plug in their little boom-box in the lower unit's required GFI?

Or does the mere presence of a door at grade level make the entire unit at grade level, even though it's not?

I would say that a receptacle should be required at every exterior door, whether it's a means of egress or not. Should the third-floor tenant be forced to plug an outside radio into an extension cord to inside the unit, just because he can't leave the premises by means of his balcony? :confused:
 
Re: accessible from grade

Dave,
My point in quoting the ROP was not directly related to the proposal, but to the panel statement. The statement, says that in the case of a one or two family dwelling unit that the required outdoor receptacle must be accessible while standing on grade. A person standing on a deck, slab or porch is not standing on grade.
A receptacle that cannot be reached while standing on grade and be within the 6'6" height requirement would not meet the requirement of 210.52(E).
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The rule for multifamily dwelling units is not the same. The required receptacle must be accessible "from grade" and this wording permits the receptacle to be above a porch deck or slab that has direct access from grade. I have no idea why CMP 2 treats the two locations differently, but it does.
Don
 
Re: accessible from grade

I am going to ignore "Charlie's Rule" for a moment (GASP! :eek: ), and try to discern the intent of the article under discussion. I believe the intent of requiring a receptacle at the front and back entrance is to permit the homeowner to operate an electric mower, weed-whacker, or trimmer. It is all about gardening. You are going to be standing on the grass, when you cut the grass, and you want to be able to reach the receptacle. If you have to run your extension cord up the porch steps, that is going to create a possible tripping hazard (for people sitting on the porch) and a possible pinching hazard to the cord itself (if you have to run it through a porch door). There might be no such hazards, if the "porch" is but one step up from the grass and is only 4 x 4 feet in size (no room for a chair). There might be no such hazards if there is no door that might close on the cord.

I think this is one of those code-writing instances of "we can't cover all possible cases, so we'll make a rule that is more restrictive than may be needed in some cases, just to make sure we provide for safety in the other cases."

Now back to the rule itself. I see no difference in the meaning of the word "at" and the word "from," as those words appear in the two separate sentences. It is bad technical writing to use separate words. But the fact that two different words were used does not compel us to interpret the two words differently. If you can stand on the grass, and reach up to plug a cord into a receptacle that is above the porch, then the receptacle complies. If you have to walk up steps, because you cannot reach the receptacle while you are standing on the grass, it does not comply.
 
Re: accessible from grade

Charlie, this in effect would mean a home owner could not pour the whole yard in concrete (I could show you where this is done in FL) or even pour a side walk (think wheel chair bound person) or patio around their house if they desired to do so unless they chiseled a 12"x12" hole at the receptacle.

As far as usage, what about the home owner that wants to set his smoker, electric fryer, cooker, or what ever on the patio or deck, they will now have to drag a cord from the receptacle located some where else most likely creating a trip or pinching hazard too.

Roger
 
Re: accessible from grade

Roger,

The Code says grade level, not simply grade. So if the top surface of the concrete was "at grade level" it would be in compliance.
 
Re: accessible from grade

Jim, that is my opinion too, but not everyone sees it that way.

Roger
 
Re: accessible from grade

Jim

"The Code says grade level, not simply grade. So if the top surface of the concrete was "at grade level" it would be in compliance."


I also agree with your statement.

It is puzzling why the two sentences use different lanuage. I find it hard to believe this is a technical error...although I guess it could be.
 
Re: accessible from grade

Out of so many grey areas of the Code, I think this is one that is very clear. A receptacle must be provided, no higher than 2.0m so it can be accessed without having to leave "grade level" (you are allowed to reach or lean over something like a set steps, or the side of a raised deck).

It seems most of the discussion comes from determing what is "at grade level". This seems to be another case of us wanting the code to say what we want. For example look at some ADA requirements and let me know if the phrase "from grade level" means the same thing as "at grade level".

The NEC is not a design tool, the determination of what is the appropiate "grade level" is the responsibilty of the general contractor.
 
Re: accessible from grade

Pierre,
It is puzzling why the two sentences use different language. I find it hard to believe this is a technical error...although I guess it could be.
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It is intentional on the part of CMP 2. They want you to be able to stand on the ground to get to the receptacle in a one or two family dwelling unit and will permit you to stand on a deck or porch to get to the required receptacle for mulit-unit dwellings that have grade level access. This comes from the panel comments and statements in the ROPs and ROCs. I see no technical reason for any difference. If you can plug the cord in without entering the building it should be ok, but that does not appear to be the panel's intent.
Don
 
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