Accessible junction

Status
Not open for further replies.
P

PH87

Member
Is a junction box considered accessible where the EMT transitions to MC which is installed above a sheet rock ceiling where the florescent light has to be unscrewed and lifted out of the way?
Once the light is mounted is it considered part of the building?
314.29 Boxes and conduit bodies shall be installed so that the wiring contained in them can be rendered accessible without removing any part of the building
 
The contractor says this is industry standard but I lean towards if I have to remove screws, its part of the building or it is not accessible to look at the junction that has been made.
Am I being over Zealous?
 
Well, is it any differnt than the factory junction box on a can light where you have to remove screws to access the box to remove the fixture from the bracket to get to the junction after the drywall is installed?
 
Good point.
Do you think there is a point where an installation could start to infringe upon the code?
 
PH87 said:
Good point.
Do you think there is a point where an installation could start to infringe upon the code?
Click to expand...

I guess if you cannot access it, it would violate code.... it doesnt say it has to be easy to access it does it? I think the intent of the code is that you dont bury the box behind a finished wall or run ductwork in front of the lid or something, you just have to be able to get to the junctions in case thier is ever an issue with them....
 
True.
To all the senior members, thanks for giving your time so the juniors can learn to think outside the box - in the box- and under the box.
Thanks for the help!
 
PH87 said:
The contractor says this is industry standard but I lean towards if I have to remove screws, its part of the building or it is not accessible to look at the junction that has been made.
Am I being over Zealous?
Click to expand...
Ever take out a recessed can?
 
We all know and expect recessed cans to have juntion boxes. I do not expect to have to remove a fixture from a ceiling to access a jbox that is not associated with the fixture itself.

In short, no extra jbox above the fixture. Poor practice.

Although a jbox in an accessible attic under 12" of insulation is pretty poor practice as well. Legal but fun to find.
 
PH87 said:
The contractor says this is industry standard...
Click to expand...


Wel of course, he thinks so, it is more convenient. IMO, accessible is not just "within reach." Some flurescent luminaires are suitable for splices/junctions, is this an option?

That being said, I am sure I have done something similar in the past, doing what needs to be done.
 
Since large junction boxes have covers held on with screws I see no difference in unscrewing a fixture to gain access to the conductors inside. Junction boxes above the ceiling adjacent to recessed mounted fixtures is something that has been done for 75 years or longer.
 
PH87 said:
Is a junction box considered accessible where the EMT transitions to MC which is installed above a sheet rock ceiling where the florescent light has to be unscrewed and lifted out of the way?
Once the light is mounted is it considered part of the building?
314.29 Boxes and conduit bodies shall be installed so that the wiring contained in them can be rendered accessible without removing any part of the building
Click to expand...

Not sure I fully understand the question but ,...2008

410.24 Connection of Electric-Discharge Luminaire.

(B) Access to boxes

Electric-discharge luminaires surface mounted over concealed outlet, pull, or junction boxes and designed not to be supported soley by the outlet box shall be provided with suitable openings in the back of the luminaire to provide access to the wiring in the box
 
M. D. said:
Not sure I fully understand the question but ,...2008

410.24 Connection of Electric-Discharge Luminaire.

(B) Access to boxes

Electric-discharge luminaires surface mounted over concealed outlet, pull, or junction boxes and designed not to be supported soley by the outlet box shall be provided with suitable openings in the back of the luminaire to provide access to the wiring in the box
Click to expand...

From the way I'm understanding the OP that section wouldn't apply to this installation. He has a recessed fixture mounted within a ceiling that has a transition from EMT to MC feeding the fixture above the ceiling.
 
M. D. said:
I don't see the word "recessed" in the OP at all???
Click to expand...


You're correct it's not there. It's an assumption on my part based on the other information in the post. It doesn't say that the fixture is surface mounted over a box either. We'll need him to post again to get the correct answer.:rolleyes:
 
ok how about 314-23?

ok how about 314-23?

i came up with this very solution for installing remodel style fixtures in a condominium project believing that the box left behind from the previously mounted surface fixture is accessible upon pulling the remodel can from the ceiling. My inspectors immediate reply was disgust. He asked me if a service person were to visit the site in the future how would a service technician know there was a box with splices above? My reply was that if he were looking for trouble with a light he would remove the recessed luminary and the box would be visible above. I also argued that the box mounted to the side of the frame in version is equally concealed. His reply to all this was that the frame in version of the can was "listed for this purpose". I told him of this thread and that i hadn't seen anything in the thread that said it was not approved in the code. His final response was to say read article 314 especially -16,20 and 23. Upon reviewing this i found the only thing possibly related to my installation would be the question of weather or not the box is rigidly supported. or possibly the face of the box being in excess of 1/4" from the surface of the drywall. Oh and the final shot that killed me was when he said oh and i checked the c of o on the building and it is rated type 5 with one hour fire separation, thus making all the previous moot.
 
My inspector just nailed me for having a couple of j boxes less than 10 to 12 inches above the drywall, a couple are on the trusses and not up high enough to be out of the insulation. are they considering insulation not movable. how are you going to chase the conductors down in the attic. they are always covered
 
wire111 said:
i came up with this very solution for installing remodel style fixtures in a condominium project believing that the box left behind from the previously mounted surface fixture is accessible upon pulling the remodel can from the ceiling. My inspectors immediate reply was disgust. He asked me if a service person were to visit the site in the future how would a service technician know there was a box with splices above? My reply was that if he were looking for trouble with a light he would remove the recessed luminary and the box would be visible above. I also argued that the box mounted to the side of the frame in version is equally concealed. His reply to all this was that the frame in version of the can was "listed for this purpose". I told him of this thread and that i hadn't seen anything in the thread that said it was not approved in the code. His final response was to say read article 314 especially -16,20 and 23. Upon reviewing this i found the only thing possibly related to my installation would be the question of weather or not the box is rigidly supported. or possibly the face of the box being in excess of 1/4" from the surface of the drywall. Oh and the final shot that killed me was when he said oh and i checked the c of o on the building and it is rated type 5 with one hour fire separation, thus making all the previous moot.
Click to expand...

Tell him that maybe an electrician would be better at troublshooting than a "technician" or "installer"
 
PH87 said:
Is a junction box considered accessible where the EMT transitions to MC which is installed above a sheet rock ceiling where the florescent light has to be unscrewed and lifted out of the way?
Once the light is mounted is it considered part of the building?
314.29 Boxes and conduit bodies shall be installed so that the wiring contained in them can be rendered accessible without removing any part of the building
Click to expand...

This just sounds like a bad design issue. With good layout there should be very little reason for a doing this. As MD pointed out if you mount the j-box to the fluorescent fixture you need only cut a hole to access it ( a 3/0 hole & a 4sq box with a 3/0 ring would do it ) then your not taking apart anything other then the fixture cover.

<Quote>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The contractor says this is industry standard but I lean towards if I have to remove screws, its part of the building or it is not accessible to look at the junction that has been made.
Am I being over Zealous?


Of course he does! It's cheaper for him and if there is a problem it is yours.
I know it is 3 months after the OP put this up I would love to know what the path you took was and how it turned out. :smile:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top