I have someone telling me that they want a rotary phase coverter installed and are adamant about not wanting an add-a-phase. I'm not real familiar with the difference. Can someone explain this to me? It will be fed from a single phase panel and after being converted to 3-phase it will feed a 3-phase panel of which saws, etc. will be used. This is a contractor who has all 3-phase equipment and is moving to a new shop where there is no 3 phase. Any help would be appreciated.
Add-A-Phase and Rotary Phase Converters
- Thread starter sroc2006
- Start date
- Status
Basically (very) the add a phase by ronk electric uses a static type and they are asking for the rotary type. I don't know why because in most applications the modern static converters are more efficient that the rotary type. There are probably some applications where one has a distinct advantage over the other.
In reality all you have to do is get a larger 3 phase motor spinning and it will run on 2 phases with no load. You can then bring on smaller motors with the larger motor acting as a phase converter. Very inefficient though.
In reality all you have to do is get a larger 3 phase motor spinning and it will run on 2 phases with no load. You can then bring on smaller motors with the larger motor acting as a phase converter. Very inefficient though.
kevin
Member
- Location
- Post Falls, ID
Suggest you contact Eylander Electric. 1-800-932-8986. They manufacture complete packages including controls, overload protection, pre-assembled three phase panel, motor, and wiring. UL listed.
peteo
Senior Member
- Location
- Los Angeles
Let him be adamant. His opinion is held by many machinists and tool builders based on real world experience.
The rotary converters generate three phase from a rotating motor. It's basically a single phase generator set.
Electronic (static) ones use a DC buss and transistors to synthesize three phase sine waves. These are used on DC systems such as solar sytems. The artificial sine wave looks like **** on an oscilloscope and yes, seems weak for machinery and equipment loads.
Static (electronic) inverters produce less lost heat - but any of the equipment builders' phone techs will tell you, motors prefer the rotary type.
The rotary converters generate three phase from a rotating motor. It's basically a single phase generator set.
Electronic (static) ones use a DC buss and transistors to synthesize three phase sine waves. These are used on DC systems such as solar sytems. The artificial sine wave looks like **** on an oscilloscope and yes, seems weak for machinery and equipment loads.
Static (electronic) inverters produce less lost heat - but any of the equipment builders' phone techs will tell you, motors prefer the rotary type.
sparkzilla
Member
Eylander Electric products are great. I've installed a couple of them, and they are pretty straight forward. The only problem I had with one install was that the machine had a VFD that kept tripping and Eylander Electric said that their machines didn't work well with VFDs.
sparkzilla
Member
I told that to my boss at the time, and he didn't want to mess with it, as it was a brand new dry clean machine.mhulbert said:
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- Semi-retired engineer
sparkzilla said:
what does the age of the machine have to do with it? VFD is the way to go.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
peteo,
Don
So motors don't like VFDs? The output of a static phase converter and a VFD are very closely related.
Don
sparkzilla
Member
I guess I worded wrong. The Eylander Electric convertor doesn't get along with supplying power to a 3 phase VFD. My boss didn't want to mess with the VFD on the NEW machine, as it was just installed and up to the manufacturer and distributor to make any changes to it.
stew
Senior Member
- Location
- federal way,washington
rotary phase converters
rotary phase converters
I sold the arco brand rotary converter for many years and it is stil as far as I am concerned the very best product out there. The rotary converter will produce a much more tru 3 phase current and will let you operate motoras at fiull torque and hp asa if they were ona true 3 phase line. The staic converters however will only let you get between 65% and maybe 75 % hp and torque. This is due to rthe **&&$$$**# up sine wave that they creat. its enough to run the motor ok but woefully inneficient. Take it from me an "old" motor guy use the rotary for best performance. Arco rotophase is still in business and is located in shelbeyville indiana. go to thier web site.
rotary phase converters
I sold the arco brand rotary converter for many years and it is stil as far as I am concerned the very best product out there. The rotary converter will produce a much more tru 3 phase current and will let you operate motoras at fiull torque and hp asa if they were ona true 3 phase line. The staic converters however will only let you get between 65% and maybe 75 % hp and torque. This is due to rthe **&&$$$**# up sine wave that they creat. its enough to run the motor ok but woefully inneficient. Take it from me an "old" motor guy use the rotary for best performance. Arco rotophase is still in business and is located in shelbeyville indiana. go to thier web site.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
stew,
Don
I will ask you the same question. Are you saying that motors do not run well on VFDs?
Don
peteo
Senior Member
- Location
- Los Angeles
Don,
Oh boy I managaed to put my foot in my mouth with "motors prefer the rotary type." My mistake entirely. I managed to change the subject from the topic, power supply for industrial equipment, to a motor installed in a machine with its own VFD. Two topics.
VFDs
VFDs and motors can work well together. More than that and - harken the new topic. VFDs have been instrumental in delivering machine shops from related technologies such as compound motors and guesswork pipe thread tapping. The electric car I helped build in the mid 90s was only made possible by use of a state of the art VFD, and a pleasure to drive. (Straight to the DMV inspection station and then straight back, 1000 pounds overweight with all those batteries.)
three phase alternating current
Customers with machine shops in diverse settings, as well as VFD manufacturer technical support people (and one guru I worked with,) have informed me of their experiences to do with use of static versus rotary converters for power supply to machining centers and shops with industrial equipment. Sufficient knowledge for me to advise sroc that "His opinion (i.e., adamant about not wanting an add-a-phase) is held by many machinists and tool builders based on real world experience."
Oh boy I managaed to put my foot in my mouth with "motors prefer the rotary type." My mistake entirely. I managed to change the subject from the topic, power supply for industrial equipment, to a motor installed in a machine with its own VFD. Two topics.
VFDs
VFDs and motors can work well together. More than that and - harken the new topic. VFDs have been instrumental in delivering machine shops from related technologies such as compound motors and guesswork pipe thread tapping. The electric car I helped build in the mid 90s was only made possible by use of a state of the art VFD, and a pleasure to drive. (Straight to the DMV inspection station and then straight back, 1000 pounds overweight with all those batteries.)
three phase alternating current
Customers with machine shops in diverse settings, as well as VFD manufacturer technical support people (and one guru I worked with,) have informed me of their experiences to do with use of static versus rotary converters for power supply to machining centers and shops with industrial equipment. Sufficient knowledge for me to advise sroc that "His opinion (i.e., adamant about not wanting an add-a-phase) is held by many machinists and tool builders based on real world experience."
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
petco,
I thought that the static converters used the same technology as a VFD to produce the third phase, but I was wrong. Most of the static converters use capacitors to create the third phase and that would not produce the same type of output as a VFD.
Don
I thought that the static converters used the same technology as a VFD to produce the third phase, but I was wrong. Most of the static converters use capacitors to create the third phase and that would not produce the same type of output as a VFD.
Don
stew
Senior Member
- Location
- federal way,washington
nope vfds work great statics not so great
- Status