Add another 200A panel

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Gogreen100

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At a farm site, a house has an existing 200a service. They want to ad an addition and more electric heat. (20kw plenum heater) I would like to install a 2nd 200a service. It woud be trenched from an existing 400a grade level transfer switch in the yard to the house for the 2nd 200a panel. The existing 200a panel is in a finshed part of house basement. Do these 2 service panels have to be next to each other, or can the new 200a panel be in the unfinished part of the basement?
 
Gogreen100 said:
At a farm site, a house has an existing 200a service. They want to ad an addition and more electric heat. (20kw plenum heater) I would like to install a 2nd 200a service. It woud be trenched from an existing 400a grade level transfer switch in the yard to the house for the 2nd 200a panel. The existing 200a panel is in a finshed part of house basement. Do these 2 service panels have to be next to each other, or can the new 200a panel be in the unfinished part of the basement?
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Those would be feeders, not services and the rules of 225 apply.

In my opinion you can not bring two feeders to the same house.
 
iwire said:
Those would be feeders, not services and the rules of 225 apply.

In my opinion you can not bring two feeders to the same house.
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Bob is right, 225.30. I doubt you could meet any of the special conditions.
 
I agree with Bob 2 feeders is a no no. You would have to install parallel feeders to the house or a large enough feeder for 400 amps.
 
I do not know how you would call them feeders!!! The power come from the utility transformer to 400A meter socket grade level transfer switch, (no overcurrant protection) then trenched to the house. (service entrance conductors) The transfer switch disconnects the whole farm site. 230.2 more than 1 service to a building.
 
Gogreen100 said:
I do not know how you would call them feeders!!! The power come from the utility transformer to 400A meter socket grade level transfer switch, (no overcurrant protection) then trenched to the house. (service entrance conductors) The transfer switch disconnects the whole farm site. 230.2 more than 1 service to a building.
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The service already sounds like it is violtion as it stands.

Well I do not understand how you can have a transfer switch without OCP but even if we call them services you can not bring two to the same home without meeting some pretty specific criteria.
 
Parallel a 2nd set, exactly, of whatever goes to the existing panel. Bring all the conductors into a gutter, and tap down to the existing panel and a 2nd tap down to the proposed new panel.
 
mdshunk said:
Parallel a 2nd set, exactly, of whatever goes to the existing panel. Bring all the conductors into a gutter, and tap down to the existing panel and a 2nd tap down to the proposed new panel.
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I agree, that will do it, of course there will still be an issue with the transfer switch
 
Originally Posted by Gogreen100
So you say you can not have a 400a meter socket and come out of it twice to 2 200a main breaker load centers!!!


You could if it were a back to back situation. Closest point of entry. But this is not the case.

I do not know how you would call them feeders!!! The power come from the utility transformer to 400A meter socket grade level transfer switch, (no overcurrant protection) then trenched to the house. (service entrance conductors) The transfer switch disconnects the whole farm site. 230.2 more than 1 service to a building.
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I am curious about the terminology. Is this a transfer switch for a generator? or is it just a 400amp meter base?
 
ceb58 said:
I am curious about the terminology. Is this a transfer switch for a generator? or is it just a 400amp meter base?
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It's probably one of those Ronk meter socket/transfer switches many rural PoCo's install for farms. They're marked as being suitable for use as service equipment.

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OK, if it is what Marc shows, or is similar here is how I see it.

230.82 prohibits transfer switches connected on the supply side of the service disconnect. That being the case the transfer switch must become the service disconnect. The one in Marc's picture looks like it would comply as a service disconnecting means.

If the above is true and the transfer switch is the service disconnect we have to comply with 230.91 which requires the service over current device to be integral or 'immediately adjacent to' the service disconnect.

Once we have over current protection at the transfer switch location the conductors running from it to the house are feeders.

That takes us to 225.30 which limits us to one feeder unless you can meet one of the sections in 225.30(A) through (E).

But lets say they are not feeders, then maybe you can do it. 230.40 Exception 2 could allow two sets of service entrance conductors to supply two separate panels in the same home if they are grouped at one location.
 
mdshunk said:
It's probably one of those Ronk meter socket/transfer switches many rural PoCo's install for farms. They're marked as being suitable for use as service equipment.

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Thanks Marc, I have never seen one like that before. Google here I come.
 
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