Added a gfci bath receptacle to the living room circuit or vice versa?

[jaylectricity]

If you've worked in enough old houses you've probably come across a few bathrooms where the bath gfci was fed from a nearby outlet in an adjoining room. Hey, they wanted a receptacle and it's a long way back to the panel.

Clearly a violation of 210.11(C)(3). But if it's already existing, which takes precedence? Can you add an outlet to the circuit in an adjoining room? After all, the circuit already belonged to that room. Or are you adding an outlet to a bathroom circuit that just happens to already have a violation by serving outlets outside the bathroom?

Is this a situation where you're making the circuit appreciably worse?

 

[480sparky]

If you're adding the receptacle where there was none before, you're required to wire it according to the current Code. There's no NEC exception for "That's they was it was done back in '67," or "Well, gee whiz, doing it that was it gonna be a lot of work."

 

[peter d]

Depends, if it's a half bath, you bet I would just use the closest circuit. I would wire a full bath with a 20 amp.

 

[ActionDave]

Separate bathroom circuit didn't come into the code till 1990's.

 

[peter d]

Separate bathroom circuit didn't come into the code till 1990's.

Up until the 1996 NEC, you could still do the 15 amp circuit throughout the house that did the garage, outside and bathroom outlets with only one GFCI.

 

[jaylectricity]

If you're adding the receptacle where there was none before, you're required to wire it according to the current Code. There's no NEC exception for "That's they was it was done back in '67," or "Well, gee whiz, doing it that was it gonna be a lot of work."

I don't think you're getting my point. If you walk into a house for the first time and see that the bathroom receptacle was added later and it was taken from the bedroom circuit nearby, would you be violating the code by adding another receptacle in the bedroom since now that circuit is feeding a bathroom gfci?

 

[ActionDave]

Up until the 1996 NEC, you could still do the 15 amp circuit throughout the house that did the garage, outside and bathroom outlets with only one GFCI.

Nailed more than one service call in under an hour when no one else could find the problem because I knew that.

 

[peter d]

I don't think you're getting my point. If you walk into a house for the first time and see that the bathroom receptacle was added later and it was taken from the bedroom circuit nearby, would you be violating the code by adding another receptacle in the bedroom since now that circuit is feeding a bathroom gfci?

I would say no, but then again, I do what I want.

 

[peter d]

Nailed more than one service call in under an hour when no one else could find the problem because I knew that.

Yes, garage or the GFCI outlet under the panel, or GFCI breaker. My friend's house (built 1987) is daisy chained like that, as are tens of thousands of others here. A few EC's still do the daisy chain method, only it's just the garage and outside receptacles now.

 

[480sparky]

I don't think you're getting my point. If you walk into a house for the first time and see that the bathroom receptacle was added later and it was taken from the bedroom circuit nearby, would you be violating the code by adding another receptacle in the bedroom since now that circuit is feeding a bathroom gfci?

Impossible to tell. Just because it was installed on January 2, 2002 doesn't mean the 2002 NEC had been adopted. Maybe there's home-grown local codes instead of the NEC. Maybe there wasn't any Codes enforced when it was installed. Maybe there were Codes enforced, but some hack installed it off the radar. Maybe the homeowner did it. Maybe it was installed with a permit and inspected, but the inspector didn't catch it. Maybe the inspector did, but was paid off. Or just turned a blind eye.

Lots of maybes.

 

[dkidd]

I think it would trigger 210.12(B).

 

[ptonsparky]

Nailed more than one service call in under an hour when no one else could find the problem because I knew that.

My bookkeeper has done it over the phone. Tells them where and what to look for if they are willing.

 

[iwire]

Up until the 1996 NEC, you could still do the 15 amp circuit throughout the house that did the garage, outside and bathroom outlets with only one GFCI.

Yeah one of the first ECs I worked for would have us go from the panel, to the closest bathroom hit a GFCI duplex there and from there hit any other bathrooms and finish up at the outdoor outlet.

So you trip the GFCI washing the car and you may be going into the bathroom to reset it. I did not like it but that was not my call.

 

[ptonsparky]

Yeah one of the first ECs I worked for would have us go from the panel, to the closest bathroom hit a GFCI duplex there and from there hit any other bathrooms and finish up at the outdoor outlet.
.

SOP.

 

[user 100]

Impossible to tell. Just because it was installed on January 2, 2002 doesn't mean the 2002 NEC had been adopted. Maybe there's home-grown local codes instead of the NEC. Maybe there wasn't any Codes enforced when it was installed. Maybe there were Codes enforced, but some hack installed it off the radar. Maybe the homeowner did it. Maybe it was installed with a permit and inspected, but the inspector didn't catch it. Maybe the inspector did, but was paid off. Or just turned a blind eye.

Lots of maybes.

It is hard to say- the code only says that a new bath rec circuit must be dedicated- it says nothing about prohibiting the addition of another rec outside of the bath area to an old circuit that happens to serve the bath area.

To be legal for sure, its prolly prudent anyway ( the tripping that often comes with stuff used in a bathroom combined with window acs and spaceheaters in the next bedroom is sometimes enough to persuade the HO to add the new ckt...) to just run a 20a new bath circuit w/ gfci new receptacle if possible and blank off or just gfci the existing receptacle in the bathroom (if it isn't already).

I think it would trigger 210.12(B).

Yes, in the ops case it does.

 

[kwired]

I don't think you're getting my point. If you walk into a house for the first time and see that the bathroom receptacle was added later and it was taken from the bedroom circuit nearby, would you be violating the code by adding another receptacle in the bedroom since now that circuit is feeding a bathroom gfci?

Not if you add a receptacle in the bedroom and pay no attention to what other outlets may be supplied from that circuit

Maybe the laundry is on other side of wall and tied to bedroom. Maybe you never notice that when installing an additional bedroom outlet.

 

[user 100]

Not if you add a receptacle in the bedroom and pay no attention to what other outlets may be supplied from that circuit

Maybe the laundry is on other side of wall and tied to bedroom. Maybe you never notice that when installing an additional bedroom outlet.

 

[peter d]

Yeah one of the first ECs I worked for would have us go from the panel, to the closest bathroom hit a GFCI duplex there and from there hit any other bathrooms and finish up at the outdoor outlet.

So you trip the GFCI washing the car and you may be going into the bathroom to reset it. I did not like it but that was not my call.

Was this back in the 80's, by any chance?

 

[tsamples]

If they had a non-GFCI receptacle outside, would you extend the circuit and add another non-GFCI? The work that you do needs to meet the current code. The code requires a dedicated circuit to the bathroom, so look for your circuit elsewhere.

 

[Sierrasparky]

I would say no, but then again, I do what I want.

I don't think you're getting my point. If you walk into a house for the first time and see that the bathroom receptacle was added later and it was taken from the bedroom circuit nearby, would you be violating the code by adding another receptacle in the bedroom since now that circuit is feeding a bathroom gfci?

Last few code cycles state " 210.11C(3) Bathroom Branch Circuits. In addition to the number
of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at
least one 120-volt, 20-ampere branch circuit shall be
provided to supply a bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such
circuits shall have no other outlets

2014 NEC or 2016CEC