Adding ground rod at seperate structure.

[Fred B]

Odd thought came up and was wondering opinions.
Now a seperate structure would require a ground rod (normally). And discussion as to what constitutes a structure has been extensive. Some have gone as far as considering a power pedestal a structure. So in adding a remote SP power pedestals with switching and GFCI for pluging in tools or other things would that require its own GE in addition to the EGC back to main panel?

 

[hhsting]

Odd thought came up and was wondering opinions.
Now a seperate structure would require a ground rod (normally). And discussion as to what constitutes a structure has been extensive. Some have gone as far as considering a power pedestal a structure. So in adding a remote SP power pedestals with switching and GFCI for pluging in tools or other things would that require its own GE in addition to the EGC back to main panel?

Are u saying you would run one branch circuit to power pedestal or one feeder to power pedestal?

 

[Fred B]

Are u saying you would run one branch circuit to power pedestal or one feeder to power pedestal?

One branch. Thus no added overload protection just GFCI. Let's say about a hundred feet from main structure.
But let's say it does have a feeder rather than just a branch, and it's own breaker.
In either case is the pedestal a "structure" requiring a GE?

 

[ptonsparky]

Feeder, Yes, needs two rods minimum.

Branch circuit, not required but not disallowed either.

IMO, not a structure when fed by a single branch circuit and moot point if it's a feeder.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Imo it doesn't matter if it is a building or a post if you are only running a single branch circuit or a multiwire branch circuit. Either case no ground rods are required. As stated above if it is a feeder then the issue comes up about a structure.

 

[goldstar]

This came up in a thread that I started several months ago :

Detached garage and grounding

I apologize for bringing this topic up again, I know it's been beat to death. I'm interested in the logic behind the Code section. I researched and found this older thread : https://forums.mikeholt.com/threads/detached-garage-one-circuit-grd-rod-disconnect-required.2554246/#post-2587585 So...

forums.mikeholt.com

The general consensus was that if you run a single 120V circuit to your "separate structure" you do not need a ground rod as Dennis stated. HOWEVER, I would say that if that "structure" that you plan on installing has any type of over-current protection built into it, based on the answers in my post, I would say that it would then be considered a feeder and you'll need the rod(s)

 

[Fred B]

Feeder, Yes, needs two rods minimum.

Branch circuit, not required but not disallowed either.

IMO, not a structure when fed by a single branch circuit and moot point if it's a feeder.

Ok, so a pedestal is a structure.
Application is a feeder for a marina power pedestal with GFCI breakers and two outlets. How do I drive ground rod at the pedestal 40ft out on the pier in the lake? Diving gear? Shore power distribution panel about 60ft away with its GE.

 

[ptonsparky]

Ok, so a pedestal is a structure.
Application is a feeder for a marina power pedestal with GFCI breakers and two outlets. How do I drive ground rod at the pedestal 40ft out on the pier in the lake? Diving gear? Shore power distribution panel about 60ft away with its GE.

Good point.
Now note my location. Not too many piers.

 

[hillbilly1]

Ok, so a pedestal is a structure.
Application is a feeder for a marina power pedestal with GFCI breakers and two outlets. How do I drive ground rod at the pedestal 40ft out on the pier in the lake? Diving gear? Shore power distribution panel about 60ft away with its GE.

The GEC can be ran back to the shore. As far as I know, there is no length limitation on the GEC wire to the grounding electrode.

 

[Fred B]

The GEC can be ran back to the shore. As far as I know, there is no length limitation on the GEC wire to the grounding electrode.

But in this instance the bonding wire from the pier pedestal to the shore panel is nearly the same distance as just getting to shore. Would not the 120/240 4th conductor bonding at the shore panel that already has its own GE count? Would not any virtue to having seperate GE for each be very limited given the close proximity the seperate GE's would be to each other by having to bring a GEC to shore from the pedestal?

 

[petersonra]

But in this instance the bonding wire from the pier pedestal to the shore panel is nearly the same distance as just getting to shore. Would not the 120/240 4th conductor bonding at the shore panel that already has its own GE count? Would not any virtue to having seperate GE for each be very limited given the close proximity the seperate GE's would be to each other by having to bring a GEC to shore from the pedestal?

I think there is a provision somewhere that allows you to run a wire that can be used as both EGC and GEC if it meets the criteria for both.

 

[wwhitney]

Note that the 2017 NEC changed the definition of structure to "That which is built or constructed, other than equipment." So if the whole power pedestal is a piece of equipment, it's not a structure, and the rules for feeders to a separate structure don't apply to it directly.

Now if the power pedestal is mounted on a dock, is the dock a separate structure for which the rules apply?

Cheers, Wayne

 

[hillbilly1]

But in this instance the bonding wire from the pier pedestal to the shore panel is nearly the same distance as just getting to shore. Would not the 120/240 4th conductor bonding at the shore panel that already has its own GE count? Would not any virtue to having seperate GE for each be very limited given the close proximity the seperate GE's would be to each other by having to bring a GEC to shore from the pedestal?

Didn’t say it made sense, but that it can legally be done! LOL!