Adding only one little 15W LED light to a store: would it trigger Title 24 compliance

[fandi]

Hello,
I'm trying to find a section in 2013 California Energy Code that says Title 24 compliance is not needed if I add only 15W LED light to an store which already has about 50 existing halogen tracks, high bay. This 15W LED light is off most of the time and it's only on when the technician do a maintenance service for the fan coil unit on the ceiling. The consensus is the 15W is nothing compared to existing energy hungry lights but I need to find that section.
Thanks.

 

[Sierrasparky]

I don't think the code addresses your situation.
If it is a service light as you say then I would put a wind up timer on it and be done.
It sure would comply with the essence of the energy code.
I don't think you AHJ would have you do more.

 

[fandi]

I don't think the code addresses your situation.
If it is a service light as you say then I would put a wind up timer on it and be done.
It sure would comply with the essence of the energy code.
I don't think you AHJ would have you do more.

Thanks Sierrasparky. I don't mind to put a timer but the thing is the AHJ asks me to do Title 24 calcs meaning I have to know all the wattage info of the existing lights in the store which is impossible to do.

 

[Sierrasparky]

Thanks Sierrasparky. I don't mind to put a timer but the thing is the AHJ asks me to do Title 24 calcs meaning I have to know all the wattage info of the existing lights in the store which is impossible to do.

Wow, I don't think that the AHJ should be asking for calcs for all the lights because you are installing 1 service light. Boy the extremes here.
I'll sift through the code later and see what more I can find.

 

[victor.cherkashi]

Do you have to comply with energy code and to file in DOB? If you add on track probably you don't have to file in department of building.

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[Sierrasparky]

Do you have to comply with energy code and to file in DOB? If you add on track probably you don't have to file in department of building.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Track............:lol::rotflmao:

You are joking.
No track unless you use limiters or panels like silver bullet. Been that way for years.
The MAN does not want the user to add lights that may put the space over the allotment of wattage. :rotflmao:

 

[Fitzdrew516]

I'm confused. Are you removing the 50w of halogen lighting and adding the LED?

 

[fandi]

I'm confused. Are you removing the 50w of halogen lighting and adding the LED?

No, I don't remove any existing lights. I only add one little 15W service light that's off most of the time. I also install a timer to automatically shut off the light after some time. All I need is a way to not to provide a bunch of Title 24 forms.

 

[qcroanoke]

No, I don't remove any existing lights. I only add one little 15W service light that's off most of the time. I also install a timer to automatically shut off the light after some time. All I need is a way to not to provide a bunch of Title 24 forms.

Do it when the AHJ isn't looking.........

 

[Sierrasparky]

Is this light above a ceiling. If so I don't think it requires T-24 calc. being a service light.

If not Can you cord and plug it? that is not under the energy code.

 

[Fitzdrew516]

It's really (as always) up to the interpretation and the strictness of the inspector (I once had a plans examiner tell me that since I was moving a light switch I had to comply with the new code (Also California)). If you're in L.A as your profile suggests I would just suggest you give it up. Those inspectors out in L.A county are brutal. They require voltage drop calcs for every circuit, emergency lighting photometrics, etc. on every job.

Honestly it sounds to me like you fall into the "Lighting Wiring Alterations" category which is section 141.0(b)2Iiv of Title 24. See below.

"iv. Lighting Wiring Alterations shall meet the applicable requirements in Sections 110.9, 130.1, and130.4.
a. Lighting Wiring Alterations include the following:
1. Adding a circuit feeding luminaires.
2. Modifying or relocating wiring to provide power to new or relocated luminaires.
3. Replacing wiring between a switch or panelboard and luminaire(s).
4. Replacing or installing a new panelboard feeding lighting systems."

So it looks like the inspector is going to drill you on a stupid technicality which is par for the course. Whatever you do do not go this route. If you add anything to the system he is going to make you not only provide the calculations, but also bring everything else up to code which means auto controls/daylighting/etc. I know it's not ideal, but if it's really a "service light" light that is going to be used sparingly I would probably put something battery powered there and forget about it. Idk your situation so that might not be the best route. Typically lighting for service and maintenance you just see the guys in the field using an extension cord and a plug in fixture (i.e. service receptacles on roof top units). Again, I'm not sure what would work best for you, but it sounds like the plans examiner is going to require the T24 documents and from what I can tell from the code there are no exceptions to help you out.

-Drew

 

[GoldDigger]

Notice that the quote says that the alterations shall meet the full requirements, not that the entire building has to be re-engineered under the new standards.
Admittedly some of the restrictions applicable to the new wiring do not make a lot of sense in the absence of an overall plan.

 

[Fulthrotl]

No, I don't remove any existing lights. I only add one little 15W service light that's off most of the time. I also install a timer to automatically shut off the light after some time. All I need is a way to not to provide a bunch of Title 24 forms.

is it being done under a permit?
is it in Los Angeles?

the problem is, you nee a sign off before final inspection
from a title 24 weenie. if the inspector is holding you to
that, then you really have no choice.

some inspectors will let it pass, some won't.

what is the entire scope of work under the permit?
remodel work, for very small amounts of lighting, is
exempt from certification. the exact percentage is
subject to debate, but one LED light fixture would
qualify. any less would be no light fixtures.

neither i, nor my EE can pull the section out of the CEC on
this one at the moment

help me to understand here.... you had to permit ONE light?

 

[GoldDigger]

help me to understand here.... you had to permit ONE light?

My guess is that the unit with the fan is a new installation and the light is part of the work done under the same permit.
Might be easier to put the fan in without the service light and add the light later.
I still go with the option of making the service light cord and plug connected. Just what the tech would have to use if the built-in light were not there.

 

[Barbqranch]

Or you can hang a flash light from a piece of cord.

• 
  

 

[Fitzdrew516]

is it being done under a permit?
is it in Los Angeles?

the problem is, you nee a sign off before final inspection
from a title 24 weenie. if the inspector is holding you to
that, then you really have no choice.

some inspectors will let it pass, some won't.

what is the entire scope of work under the permit?
remodel work, for very small amounts of lighting, is
exempt from certification. the exact percentage is
subject to debate, but one LED light fixture would
qualify. any less would be no light fixtures.

neither i, nor my EE can pull the section out of the CEC on
this one at the moment

help me to understand here.... you had to permit ONE light?

I think you might be thinking of a lighting system alteration which would then fall under Table 141.0-E to determine what all requirements must be followed. "Lighting system alteration" is defined as follows:
"Lighting System Alterations include alterations where an existing lighting system is modified,luminaires are replaced, or luminaires are disconnected from the circuit, removed and
reinstalled, whether in the same location or installed elsewhere."

However, since he is adding lighting he would fall under the "Lighting Wiring Alterations" as listed prior which will make him comply with new requirements. In L.A. County they are going to make him bend over backwards. They get some kind of sick pleasure out of their job out there.

 

[Fitzdrew516]

Notice that the quote says that the alterations shall meet the full requirements, not that the entire building has to be re-engineered under the new standards.
Admittedly some of the restrictions applicable to the new wiring do not make a lot of sense in the absence of an overall plan.

It says "Applicable requirements in sections 110.9, 130.1, and 130.4." Section 110.9 and 130.1 covers lighting controls and a few extras, 130.4 covers controls installation and certificates.
Anyway - in my mind this is a "Lighting Wiring Alteration" which brings up those requirements. However, a "Lighting System Alteration" has a different set of requirements dependent on table 141.0-E. But since he is adding lighting and not just altering it I think he's S.O.L.

 

[kwired]

Did not read all the posts very thoroughly, but find it ironic that so much is/can be made over one 15 watt luminaire, but they could bring in a 1200 watt coffee pot and leave it on most of the day with no question at all. Does common sense even exist anymore?

 

[Fitzdrew516]

Did not read all the posts very thoroughly, but find it ironic that so much is/can be made over one 15 watt luminaire, but they could bring in a 1200 watt coffee pot and leave it on most of the day with no question at all. Does common sense even exist anymore?

Not in California :lol:

 

[mwm1752]

Track............:lol::rotflmao:

You are joking.
No track unless you use limiters or panels like silver bullet. Been that way for years.
The MAN does not want the user to add lights that may put the space over the allotment of wattage. :rotflmao:

I am not real familiar with Title 24 but if you are using limiters on the track the per IECC the max wattage of the limiter has already been included in the calculation an you may use up to that calculation. add to many lamps the limiter will trip.