Adding outlets to bedroom
- Thread starter romeo
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Jim W in Tampa
Senior Member
- Location
- Tampa Florida
Yes its a mustromeo said:
It does sound stupid,5 others without but the one new one needs protected.
Last edited:
ceknight
Senior Member
romeo said:
Yep, unless you're in a jurisdiction that doesn't require it.
There are still places where older codes prevail, and there are places that have specifically amended that requirement out of the newer codes. But in general, yeah, you're stuck with that little bit of NEC stupidity.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Of course, if you add AFCI protection to the circuit that powers that one new receptacle, there's a good chance that most, if not all, of the other outlets in the bedroom will get AFCI protection at the same time.
"Of course, if you add AFCI protection to the circuit that powers that one new receptacle, there's a good chance that most, if not all, of the other outlets in the bedroom will get AFCI protection at the same time."
I often add AFCI receptacles in homes with K&T where it is impossible to AFCI protect the existing receptacles because of the way the K&T was wired.
John
I often add AFCI receptacles in homes with K&T where it is impossible to AFCI protect the existing receptacles because of the way the K&T was wired.
John
Jim W in Tampa
Senior Member
- Location
- Tampa Florida
flick said:
Any problem with triping from the old wiring ?
Jim W in Tampa said:
Yes, that's why I DON'T often put AFCI on K&T.....rarely does it work because of the neutral connections. It's rare to find a K&T that will hold.
So, when I add receptacles in bedrooms, I usually pull new wire and AFCI them, and leave the old ones alone.
One jurisdiction here will also allow an existing circuit to be extended, typically by using wiremold, as long as no more than two receptacles are added. This is a local ordinance. The other jurisdictions make no allowance and any new receptcles must be AFCI with new wire.
John
paul
Senior Member
- Location
- Snohomish, WA
They aren't required in my house. :grin:
Can you even find an arcfault breaker for a Zinsco panel?
Can you even find an arcfault breaker for a Zinsco panel?
allenwayne
Senior Member
I highly doubt it unless you design one and have it listed 
At the price for zinsco breaker could you imagine what the cost for a afci breaker would be ??
Sir just add a few zeros on the end of that figure on that check
At the price for zinsco breaker could you imagine what the cost for a afci breaker would be ??Sir just add a few zeros on the end of that figure on that check
- Location
- Massachusetts
Jim W in Tampa said:
You and I sure think differently.:grin:
So when you add a new circuit to a home with K&T is it also stupid to include an EGC 'cause the other circuits don't have an EGC'?
Jim W in Tampa
Senior Member
- Location
- Tampa Florida
iwire said:
To me its like driving on bald tires.Replacing one helps but i still would not drive it.That bedroom has not likely changed any real use so perhaps they now eliminate using a cord.What would you prefer,a 10 foot 18 gage cord to that TV or a new receptacle mounted in the wall behind it ? If we force them to do the right thing and provide a ground and afci the cost with labor,material,drywall patching,painting,etc might easily reach $1000.At that point the customer just goes to big orange and buys the cord.
- Location
- Massachusetts
As I said, we just see things 180 degrees apart.:grin:
Jim W in Tampa
Senior Member
- Location
- Tampa Florida
We seldom agree but when we do i put a mark on my wall.We are up to 4 LOLiwire said:
shortcircuit2
Senior Member
- Location
- South of Bawstin
Romeo...
I have read some comments that interpret your question differently.
If outlets are being added to an existing branch circuit that feeds this bedroom...then I would say AFCI protection is not required according to 210.12 of the 2005 code.
But, if a new branch circuit is in installed to feed outlets in an existing bedroom...then I would say AFCI protection is required.
shortcircuit2
I have read some comments that interpret your question differently.
If outlets are being added to an existing branch circuit that feeds this bedroom...then I would say AFCI protection is not required according to 210.12 of the 2005 code.
But, if a new branch circuit is in installed to feed outlets in an existing bedroom...then I would say AFCI protection is required.
shortcircuit2
racerdave3
Senior Member
- Location
- Western Massachusetts
shortcircuit2 said:
Exactly, new falls under current code.
- Location
- Massachusetts
shortcircuit2 said:
Devils advocate Mode on.
Are you adding receptacles without adding new branch circuit wiring?
Mode off
I agree 100%
shortcircuit2
Senior Member
- Location
- South of Bawstin
Keen observation there Iwire...
Well, I would say that the branch circuit wiring being installed is between the existing outlet and the new outlet(s) that is being added...
Not between the final overcurrent device protecting the circuit and the new outlet(s) being added...
Seems to be open to interpretation to the AHJ...
shortcircuit2
Well, I would say that the branch circuit wiring being installed is between the existing outlet and the new outlet(s) that is being added...
Not between the final overcurrent device protecting the circuit and the new outlet(s) being added...
Seems to be open to interpretation to the AHJ...
shortcircuit2
- Location
- Massachusetts
shortcircuit2 said:
I agree, I can see it going either way.
I have never been a fan of adding to existing circuits in homes anyway.
Most of the homes I used to work in where old and there was no telling what you where connecting to.
kbsparky
Senior Member
- Location
- Delmarva, USA
In many older homes, the circuits were installed as "multi-wire" from the panel, with a 3-wire feeder, and then split off at the first outlet.
Those wired in this manner are much more difficult to change to AFI protection, simply by replacing the circuit breaker.
Have most of the manufacturers come up with viable 2-pole AFI breakers yet?
Those wired in this manner are much more difficult to change to AFI protection, simply by replacing the circuit breaker.
Have most of the manufacturers come up with viable 2-pole AFI breakers yet?
macmikeman
Senior Member
- Location
- Planet macmikeman
shortcircuit2 said:
Ok, here we go again. This is the very last time I quote this code ever here or anywhere else, until it changes, I promise. From the 2005 NEC. 210.12 (B) All120 volt, single phase, 15 and 20 amp branch circuit supplying OUTLETS INSTALLED in dwelling unit bedrooms shall be protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter, combination type installed to provide protection of the branch circuit. I highlighted two words on my own. Outlets installed. When you install one new outlet on a branch circuit, legal extension or no, you need to protect the branch circuit with an arc-fault. Had they put a comma after the word outlets, then you would have to provide arc-fault only if you installed a new branch circuit. See what one little comma can do? Of course 90.4 allows the AHJ to make interpretations of the rules. So he can add a comma back in as it were.
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