Adding smoke alarms to an existing circuit - how to AFCI?

[tx2step]

Older house, with an old Federal Pacific stab-lock panel in a bedroom closet. They need to install interconnected (and 120V powered with battery backup) smoke alarms to 3 bedrooms and the hall (4 total) to meet occupancy codes. The plan is to power the smoke alarms off an existing 15A lighting circuit. The wiring will be #14/3 W/G NM.

Have any of you guys done something like this before?

What is the best/easiest way to meet 2014 NEC 210.12(D)?

I've never seen a combination type AFCI circuit breaker for an old Federal Pacific panel - are there any out there?

I'm thinking - cut in an outlet box just below the existing panel, install an outlet branch-circuit (OBC) AFCI receptacle in it, and feed the lighting circuit down through that and back up into the panel to provide AFCI protection for the entire circuit.

Another approach would be to power it off an existing receptacle circuit and change out the first receptacle in the circuit to an OBC AFCI receptacle -- but that may take longer to do, since I'll have to find the first receptacle on the circuit, and see if there is anything else on the circuit that might cause problems. And the location may be behind furniture, so resetting could be a pain.

Anyone have a better idea or method?

What's your experience with OBC AFCI receptacles? I haven't installed one yet.

They are also available as OBC AFCI/GFCI combination receptacles -- has anyone use one of those yet? I'll probably need to use them for replacements in kitchens, laundry and bathrooms?

Thanks for the help

 

[JFletcher]

Be cautioned that if the house is old enough to have a FPE Stab Lock panel, the branch circuit wiring could very well go thru a light box first then spider out from there.

Is pulling a new circuit out of the question? No x-connected neutrals, no lights/receptacles on the same circuit, no messing with the existing wiring. I'd use an AFCI receptacle because, no, tmk no one makes an AFCI breaker for an FPE panel (you might check with UBI if you're feeling lucky).

 

[480sparky]

Pull a small 240-circuit from the panel and use the space to feed a small 4- or 6-space subpanel. Refeed the 240v circuit from there, then you'll have 2 or 4 more circuits to use an AFCI in.

That's the skin-flint's method.

Personally, I'd junk the panel and start from scratch.

 

[tx2step]

Personally, I'd junk the panel and start from scratch.

That would be my preference as well, but that would cause the panel to have to be relocated out of the clothes closet. That would ramp up the cost considerably.

What is commonly done around here in that case is a new meter loop and 200A MCB raintight panel is installed on the outside of the house, new NM run from the new outside panel to the old panel box in the closet and the old panel turned into a junction box. If that involves adding 6 feet of new wire to each circuit (and it usually does), then all of the 120V circuits must be put on AFCI circuit breakers.

I'm trying to find a cost effective means to just add the 120V interconnected smoke alarms.

Does anyone have any experience with OBC AFCI receptacles? Do they nuisance trip a lot? At least the circuit breakers are on at least their 2nd generation. The receptacles are still pretty new - I haven't used them yet.

 

[kwired]

If you don't want AFCI receptacle, any line from the main panel to a panel with a single AFCI breaker in it is still a feeder, doesn't require AFCI protection and the load side is the branch circuit. You could put such single AFCI breaker anywhere it may have working clearance and no other restrictions. Will cost less then any AFCI (if you even can find one ) that works in the FPE panel.

 

[Little Bill]

I may know someone who would tap off a light circuit in a bedroom or hall and run the smokes off that, no AFCI.:angel:

 

[peter d]

I may know someone who would tap off a light circuit in a bedroom or hall and run the smokes off that, no AFCI.:angel:

I might fit in that category.

 

[gadfly56]

I may know someone who would tap off a light circuit in a bedroom or hall and run the smokes off that, no AFCI.:angel:

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Seriously. Is there some local requirement to put smoke alarms on an AFCI in existing construction?

 

[kwired]

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Seriously. Is there some local requirement to put smoke alarms on an AFCI in existing construction?

NEC would require AFCI if extending the circuit - which I thought that was what the OP was doing.

 

[gadfly56]

NEC would require AFCI if extending the circuit - which I thought that was what the OP was doing.

I don't believe so. There is nothing in the NEC that says smoke alarms have to go on an AFCI. I'm not sure what the jurisdiction requirements are for that part of Texas, but I don't believe in NJ if you were tapping a circuit you'd have to convert it to AFCI, especially if there is no new construction.

 

[kwired]

I don't believe so. There is nothing in the NEC that says smoke alarms have to go on an AFCI. I'm not sure what the jurisdiction requirements are for that part of Texas, but I don't believe in NJ if you were tapping a circuit you'd have to convert it to AFCI, especially if there is no new construction.

210.12(A) starts out with: "All 120-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets or devices".

The "or devices" was new in 2014. A smoke alarm is an outlet.

When AFCI's first appeared in NEC I think it was just required on receptacles in bedrooms, but the next cycle wording was changed to "outlets". Smoke alarms have been required to be on AFCI's ever since if in an area that 210.12 mentions.

ETA: smoke alarm itself maybe isn't an outlet, but there is an outlet at a smoke alarm location at very least.

 

[gadfly56]

210.12(A) starts out with: "All 120-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets or devices".

The "or devices" was new in 2014. A smoke alarm is an outlet.

When AFCI's first appeared in NEC I think it was just required on receptacles in bedrooms, but the next cycle wording was changed to "outlets". Smoke alarms have been required to be on AFCI's ever since if in an area that 210.12 mentions.

ETA: smoke alarm itself maybe isn't an outlet, but there is an outlet at a smoke alarm location at very least.

Yes, but the code is not retroactive, usually.

 

[kwired]

Yes, but the code is not retroactive, usually.

I agree, but without local amendments NEC is pretty clear that extending a circuit more then six feet means AFCI must be provided if a new circuit would have required AFCI. I think even 2011 was that way.

 

[jumper]

I agree, but without local amendments NEC is pretty clear that extending a circuit more then six feet means AFCI must be provided if a new circuit would have required AFCI. I think even 2011 was that way.

Just to clarify. The exception only applies if max is 6' and no new outlet or device is added to the circuit.

Exception: AFCI protection shall not be required where
the extension of the existing conductors is not more than
1.8 m (6 ft) and does not include any additional outlets or
devices.

IIRC Dennis got this added for panel changes.

 

[gadfly56]

I agree, but without local amendments NEC is pretty clear that extending a circuit more then six feet means AFCI must be provided if a new circuit would have required AFCI. I think even 2011 was that way.

Well, I guess you could cut in a receptacle and put an AFCI device in and continue to the smoke alarms. Or change the first existing receptacle to AFCI on the circuit you want to use.

 

[Stebs]

I agree, but without local amendments NEC is pretty clear that extending a circuit more then six feet means AFCI must be provided if a new circuit would have required AFCI. I think even 2011 was that way.

Guess you could claim that the circuit you would have added for the smoke would have been a 10 amp circuit and therefore no afci required, therefore this extension wouldn't require an Afci? :angel:

 

[kwired]

Guess you could claim that the circuit you would have added for the smoke would have been a 10 amp circuit and therefore no afci required, therefore this extension wouldn't require an Afci? :angel:

If you put it on a 10 amp circuit breaker that might work. They do make them, I have seen 10 amp QO breakers - but never in a dwelling. Next question may be if they are listed as branch circuit devices. The ones I have seen are on control circuits.