Adventures in Wire Pulling: The Ongoing Saga of our Damaged Feeders

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WOW!!! :eek:

Hind sight at this point in time, but when they pulled the latest set of conductors did they: monitor pulling tension, appply lube, monitor cable physically going into the source end, was the cable clean or did it lay on the dirt, did the reel get muddy from storage, handling, moving to location, etc. etc.??? :rant:

RC
 
@JON456,Have been following this thread, and after the last input from you; I had quick question come to my mind. Since only of one these cables failed...How were they delivered? Were they spooled or coiled rolled out? I would assume these cables were purchased recently... Is that correct? Since the conduits were verified to be in good condition; There seems there are two other possibilities... 1. Cables was damaged during the pull(no pull data), 2. Cable was bad from the get-go. Was the cable verified prior to installation? You had stated that the cable was opened up at the pull box and the cable appeared to be discolored once the insulation was removed, I do not believe that the cable would not discolor in a short period of time. If the cable had been verified prior to installation and proved to be in good condition; That would leave one failure point(the pull). I think you received bad cable from the supply house. JMHO.
For those who have been following this story, the (mis)adventure continues. :weeping:Brief backstory: As part of our 1MW solar project 19 months ago, the installing contractor pulled our existing (16) 500 MCM aluminum main feeder wires (480V/1,000A, 3-phase wye) into two in-ground conduits, damaging the insulation in the process. Two months ago, one conduit shorted out (destroying all wires within) and the other conduit was tested as having three damaged wires. After threats of legal action, the contractor finally agreed to replace the feeders. We opted to switch from (16) 500 MCM aluminum wires in two conduits, to (8) 400 MCM copper wire in one conduit (derating our service from 1,000A to 600A); we agreed to pay the $10K cost difference for this new copper XHHW wire. The contractor wanted a more experienced and skilled crew to do the new pulls, so he subbed the wire pulling part of the job to another contractor; the original contractor made the splices at the in-ground pull box.The job was done last Friday. The wire was installed in two separate pulls: a 200' section from the distribution panel to the mid-point in-ground pull-box, and a 160' section from the switch gear to the pull-box. The wire was spliced at the pull-box. Before putting the feeders in service, we had an independent testing company perform insulation resistance tests on all the replaced wires (which, btw, the contractor objected to). One of the eight new 400 MCM copper wires tested low resistance to ground (~50K ohms). The splice at the mid-point pull-box was cut and the two sections of wire tested separately. Each section tested bad. Both the contractor and sub-contractor are of the opinion that the wire was defective from the distributor based on the fact that when they cut the splice out, they discovered a light coating of black oxidation on the copper wire's strands suggesting that water had intruded into the wire before it was sold.Because the work was scheduled on a Friday, our options to resolve the problem were limited. The contractor's immediate "fix" was to change this wire from being a 480V phase conductor to being a neutral conductor, which we agreed would be an acceptable short-term solution. The contractor is currently discussing the problem with the wire distributor, but so far has not made any arrangements to replace the wire. In fact, so far he has not even conceded that the wire should be replaced. Based on comments made Friday, our expectation is that he will try to justify leaving the wire as-is and calling the job completed.Questions:1. Is it code-compliant to have a neutral feeder in service that has failed insulation resistance testing?2. If it is not prohibited, what are the long-term issues with using this wire as a neutral inside buried conduit filled with brackish water?3. If you were the customer who had paid for the installation of new copper wire, would you be willing to accept this damaged feeder?
 
I'm not sure how they think they can justify a "leaky" wire. You hired them to pull in new XHHW and when tested, it was damaged. Bad pipe, bad technique, bad wire(?), really doesn't matter. It's ain't what you ordered. ("If I'd wanted a bare neutral, I'd have ordered a bare neutral.")
Thank you -- that's exactly what I've been arguing all this time!

Of course there is much more to this story -- all of it bad. The old aluminum main feeders that brought power into our facility were not the only wires damaged back in 2012. The contractor also damaged a number of the new copper wires he installed for taking our solar power out to the grid.

After half our aluminum main feeders shorted two months ago, we decided that we were going to have all the project's AC feeders and branch circuit conductors (BCC's) megger tested by an independent testing company. Testing of the remaining aluminum main feeders required interrupting power to our facility -- and our commercial tenants. So to minimize disruption, we planned the testing to be done on the same day (Saturday) that the contractor was scheduled to pull out the one conduit of shorted main feeders. This meant we also needed to de-energize and unlug all the solar feeders and BCC's for testing on the same day.

One thing I insisted upon was performing the insulation resistance tests with the wire wetted (i.e., filling the buried PVC conduits with water), because megger testing the wire will not reveal any damage to the insulation if the exposed inner conductor is dry and there's no electrical path to ground. The contractor fought back on this and tried to claim that flooding the conduits would damage something (despite the fact that he knew many of the in-ground conduits he installed were already completely flooded end-to-end from accumulated rain/ground water). To counter his claims, I contacted the wire manufacturer and their standards/specifications engineer confirmed that they factory-test their wire while it is submerged in water. So we flat-out told the contractor in advance that we would be flooding the conduits for testing. But even on the day of the testing, the contractor was yelling at me and trying to stop me from filling the conduits with water.

Anyway, the challenge on our side was to manage and sequence all the various tasks that were to occur that day. We wanted to flood all the conduits, but ten of those conduits (five in one direction, five in the other) opened into the large in-ground pull box where the contractor's employees would be extracting the shorted aluminum feeders. We decided we would wait until after their job was completed before flooding those conduits so not to interfere with their wire removal operation. The problem was, the contractor only brought two men to do the job of pulling out the 360 linear feet of (8) 500 MCM aluminum wires. And the first 200 foot section went very slooooooooowly; in part because of the geometry of the pull, and in part because one of the damaged aluminum wires had internally corroded and swollen to the size of a salami inside the conduit. As a result, the contractor's two employees didn't complete the wire removal until around 9PM at night, long after the man from the independent testing company had left. So the (18) 350 MCM copper solar feeders that passed through that pull-box were meggered, but they were not tested with their conduits flooded. Out of those (18) feeders, three tested bad: two had insulation resistance values so low (9.8K & 2.2M) they had to be taken out-of-service, and one was marginal (50M) but still temporarily serviceable. There were a few other wires that were in the 0.8G to 1.2G range; the rest were 4G or above.

That first set of testing was on 19 April. Which now brings us to last Friday (30 May). In addition to pulling in the eight new 400 MCM copper main feeders, the contractor and his sub were to also remove & replace the three sections of damaged solar feeders (the damaged solar feeders were cut in the pull-box: two sections were bad between the box and the switch gear, and one section was bad between the box and our electrical room). Note that the contractor was not directly involved in the new wire pulls; these were being performed by the sub-contractor. The primary contractor -- and the one electrician he brought with him -- were only unlugging/lugging the wires and making-up the splices.

Again, we hired the independent testing company to come in the afternoon to perform commissioning testing on all the replaced wires, plus we opted to re-test all 18 solar feeders so that they could be tested wet this time. Once again, the contractor objected to the testing and objected to the flooding of the conduits. In fact, he directed his electrician to start lugging some of the newly-pulled wires in the morning before any IR tests had been performed. I had to put a stop to that. Since the contractor and his electrician were not doing anything while the main facility feeders were being pulled, we asked him to unlug the remaining solar feeders at both ends so they'd be ready for when the testing company arrived. Instead, he sat in his truck sulking like a petulant child, so I had to unlug all the feeders myself.

By around 4PM, all wire pulling had been completed and the primary contractor had spliced all the wires, so I could finally proceed with prepping the remaining eight conduits for testing. First, I had to pack the conduit ends in the pull-box with duct seal so the water would be contained within the conduits. Again the contractor complained, claiming it was too late in the day and that the sub-contractor wanted to wrap-up and leave; he wanted to have the wires tested dry. It's a good thing I stood my ground. In addition to the new main feeder wire that tested bad (the subject of my first post), we identified three more defective solar feeders. These were solar feeders that had previously been deemed "good" during the dry IR testing performed a month ago. But with the wet tests, these three wires now measured at 50K, 295K, and 600M Ohms.

The contractor knows that he's going to have to replace the two wires that measure below 1M Ohm. But he claims that the third wire is acceptable because it's over 100M Ohms -- a number that I consider to be rather arbitrary and relevant only for maintenance "Go/No-go" testing, not for new equipment commissioning.** All the other wires exceeded the measuring capacity of the testing meter: >4G Ohms.

In my opinion, NEC 110.7 still applies for this 600M Ohm wire. What say you?

And that's not the end of this saga. Stay tuned for my next thread where I discuss the creative way he "repaired" one of our inverter's damaged BCC's...

?
**(Technically, our solar installation is no longer "new" as it was put in service 18 months ago. But since the contractor never performed any testing, these current measurements are the closest we have to commission tests.)
 
Is your solar plant offline while all this is going on?
Our 1MW solar plant has been crippled since late March because one of our four 250KW inverters has been offline.

Q: Why was it offline?
A: Because one of the phase conductors between the PV distribution panel and the inverter had also been damaged by the contractor when it was installed 18 months ago.

Q: How was the damaged wire discovered?
A: I discovered this damaged wire when I was accidentally electrically shocked back in March of this year as described in this post. After that event, the inverter was shut down and disconnected from the grid.

Q: Did the contractor replace all the wires to that inverter?
A: No. He only replaced a 125 foot section of the one wire that failed IR testing. He did this by digging a hole to intercept the conduit, cutting into the conduit, and cutting the bad wire. Then he replaced the section of wire between that point and the next pull-box. A Christy box was placed in the new hole.

Q: Why was the inverter offline for so long?
A: Because the contractor dragged his feet on starting the repairs for almost 2 months. Initially it was because he didn't want to take responsibility for any of the damage. But since the inverter conductors were new wires installed by him into new conduit installed by him, he had no way to dodge that bullet. Then he was waiting to see if his insurance company was going to cover the cost of the repairs (not that that's any reason to wait). After that, it was just a series of delays on his part. Even after replacing the wire, it wasn't until last Friday (two weeks after the new wire was pulled in!) that he took the time to splice the new wire section to the existing wire.

Q: Did you see the extent of the damage?
A: No. We instructed the contractor to provide us in advance with a written "Method of Procedures" detailing how he was going to R&R the damaged wire. We also informed him we wanted to be present during the pull to observe the work and to inspect the damaged wire. He did not comply with either requirements. He came onto our property early in the morning and, without informing us, removed and replaced the wire. I only learned about it after the fact when I was talking to one of his electricians. He took the damaged wire back to his shop without giving us the opportunity to inspect it.

Q: Are all the solar inverters back online now?
A: Yes, although not at full capacity. Because of damaged PV feeders we discovered Friday (and which were taken out-of-service), I had to disable some of our inverter's modules in order to derate the inverter's max generating capacity so as not to exceed the ampacity of our remaining feeders.

Q: How much solar revenue have you lost?
A: For the one inverter being offline, we've lost approximately $12,000 (~$200/day for the past two months). Plus at least another $1,200 for the time when our whole PV grid connection was offline.
 
Why is this contractor still allowed on the property?

It sounds like two other parties need to be brought in- a new EC and a lawyer. Have the first fix the feeder problems and have the second to go after the old EC for costs. At this point, I wouldn't let the old EC so much as open a jbox. Might cost something up front, but you'll stop throwing good money down a hole.
 
Why is this contractor still allowed on the property?

It sounds like two other parties need to be brought in- a new EC and a lawyer. Have the first fix the feeder problems and have the second to go after the old EC for costs. At this point, I wouldn't let the old EC so much as open a jbox. Might cost something up front, but you'll stop throwing good money down a hole.

Not infrequently, contracts allow, if not require, that the contractor make good on any damages and that said contractor be granted the opportunity to correct defective work. It isn't usually required that he do so gracefully. Being dragged kicking and screaming is allowed, as long as things get fixed. I'm guessing at this point that whatever contract was in place did not include liquidated damages, otherwise all you would have seen is the blue glow of Cherenkov radiation as the contractor attempted to exceed the speed of light trying to get the work done.
 
As Gadfly56 correctly deduced, the contract included a 10-year warranty on the entire installation. I wish we could bring in another contractor to repair everything and then sue the original contractor for our losses. It's not just his shoddy work that irks me, it's his lies, obfuscation, and unprofessionalism that really send me over the edge. But realistically, we'd rather not get embroiled in litigation. While we'd very likely financially prevail in such a lawsuit, it would still add to our wasted time and overall frustration.

However, we are holding the contractor responsible for liquidated damages and have told him so in no uncertain terms. As the project owners, we are listed on the contractor's surety bond, and have already filed a claim with the insurance company. The insurance company already indicated that they will probably not cover the contractor's deficient work, but they may cover liquidated damages. But they did admonish the contractor for dragging his feet on the repairs, stating that delays in repairs might limit their liability for damages.
 
As Gadfly56 correctly deduced, the contract included a 10-year warranty on the entire installation. I wish we could bring in another contractor to repair everything and then sue the original contractor for our losses. It's not just his shoddy work that irks me, it's his lies, obfuscation, and unprofessionalism that really send me over the edge. But realistically, we'd rather not get embroiled in litigation. While we'd very likely financially prevail in such a lawsuit, it would still add to our wasted time and overall frustration.

However, we are holding the contractor responsible for liquidated damages and have told him so in no uncertain terms. As the project owners, we are listed on the contractor's surety bond, and have already filed a claim with the insurance company. The insurance company already indicated that they will probably not cover the contractor's deficient work, but they may cover liquidated damages. But they did admonish the contractor for dragging his feet on the repairs, stating that delays in repairs might limit their liability for damages.

WOW... this makes me want to be very cautious about who I hire to perform electrical work/ repair. On behalf of us who do good quality work, without the unprofessional-ism, I would like to say sorry for your dilemma. Stories like this give other good people a bad wrap.
 
As Gadfly56 correctly deduced, the contract included a 10-year warranty on the entire installation. I wish we could bring in another contractor to repair everything and then sue the original contractor for our losses. It's not just his shoddy work that irks me, it's his lies, obfuscation, and unprofessionalism that really send me over the edge. But realistically, we'd rather not get embroiled in litigation. While we'd very likely financially prevail in such a lawsuit, it would still add to our wasted time and overall frustration.

However, we are holding the contractor responsible for liquidated damages and have told him so in no uncertain terms. As the project owners, we are listed on the contractor's surety bond, and have already filed a claim with the insurance company. The insurance company already indicated that they will probably not cover the contractor's deficient work, but they may cover liquidated damages. But they did admonish the contractor for dragging his feet on the repairs, stating that delays in repairs might limit their liability for damages.

Were liquidated damages part of the contract, or is this a cudgel you've brought out ex post facto to chivvy the EC along?
 
Were liquidated damages part of the contract, or is this a cudgel you've brought out ex post facto to chivvy the EC along?
I believe it's part of the contract, but can't give a definitive answer. I'm the technical guy; the financials are handled by the general manager.
 
I believe it's part of the contract, but can't give a definitive answer. I'm the technical guy; the financials are handled by the general manager.

Heh, he must be buying TUMS by the case. If I were he, I'd be standing over the EC with a spike studded 2x4.
 
This thread kind of reminds me of the thread a few months back about the German company being frustrated that they had no tools for identifying the skill set of an electrician in the US. The stories we're hearing here are horrific and show how an entire EC company can be run by people who have total disregard for professional standards and knowledge levels. The lack of knowledge described by Jon456 makes these people sound more like country bumkin residential installers rather than professional electricians.

I don't understand how people doing this kind of work can:

- Have no understanding of how to properly handle wires and conduits during installation
- Have no understanding of how to test wires for damage
- Have no interest in providing a customer with a working installation that they were paid to provide
- Take no pride in their professional ability and reputation
 
I don't understand how people doing this kind of work can:

- Have no understanding of how to properly handle wires and conduits during installation
- Have no understanding of how to test wires for damage
- Have no interest in providing a customer with a working installation that they were paid to provide
- Take no pride in their professional ability and reputation
People on the other side of the fence think what they are doing is just fine.

I am not defending the contractor under discussion, just saying in his mind he is not much different than you and me and the rest of us that care. Right now he is not thinking about what he did wrong or could have done better, he is thinking about how he is the one getting screwed.

It's twisted and makes no sense, just the way the world is.
 
People on the other side of the fence think what they are doing is just fine.

I am not defending the contractor under discussion, just saying in his mind he is not much different than you and me and the rest of us that care. Right now he is not thinking about what he did wrong or could have done better, he is thinking about how he is the one getting screwed.

It's twisted and makes no sense, just the way the world is.

I wouldn't suspect anyone here of defending this contractor. His mind set comes from him "not knowing what he doesn't know." I doubt that's a common problem among the participants of this forum, but it's very common in our culture. The housewife who cooks or bakes stuff in her kitchen for sale to the public somewhere with no understanding of basic hygiene practices or food preparation standards, the auto mechanic whose only real education is tinkering, the contractor who has worked for someone else in a limited capacity and strikes out on his own, the list goes on. It's a double edged sword, because on one hand, we want the freedom here to be able to find our own success while on the other hand, we don't really want to invest time in learning, and so many people aren't even aware that they really need to know a lot more in the first place.

That lack of preparation becomes evident and problematic when someone finds themselves in a situation that's over their head, like this contractor evidently has. He thought he had found his groove, only to discover that what he thought was a groove is actually a rut.

One of the reasons I come to this forum, as I'm sure many of us do, is because I know that there are so many things I don't know about what I do every day and I need to make myself aware of them and educate myself about them. If I recall correctly, there was talk at the beginning of this project (or soon after it started) about verifying cables and conduits, etc. That was the time when this contractor could have stepped up his game and taken advantage of an opportunity to advance his learning. Instead, he wasted that chance.
 
I wouldn't suspect anyone here of defending this contractor. His mind set comes from him "not knowing what he doesn't know." I doubt that's a common problem among the participants of this forum, but it's very common in our culture.
You have lived in Europe, I have not, but I have partied with people from everywhere. One thing I can say with confidence is once you get more familiar with people from other places in the world the more mundane they become.
 
You have lived in Europe, I have not, but I have partied with people from everywhere. One thing I can say with confidence is once you get more familiar with people from other places in the world the more mundane they become.

Absolutely. I lived in Poland, and their culture is very similar to ours in the sense that I was talking about. On paper, the average electrician, auto mechanic or baker will look more educated that we do, but in practice it's still a free-for-all in many respects. I think that's why I lasted so long there - it reminded me of home :) . My experience with Germans on the other hand, is that they are way more cautious than we are when it comes to striking out on your own when not fully prepared, nor do they typically talk out their ***es as experts when they're not (like some foreign EE's here ;) . It's more limiting for sure, but man, when you pick up your car from the mechanic, you KNOW it's been fixed right :)
 
The path to true enlightenment begins with three words: "I don't understand." It seems in our current culture admitting ignorance is anathema and personally I don't get it. I love learning new things. But then, I'm the guy in every seminar you ever took that asked ALL the questions.
 
I have worked on a fair number of projects that ended up in Europe. I do not think this kind of problem is rooted in anything other than human nature. Some people just do not know they do not know, and have no interest in learning what they do not know.

I have occasionally said that one difference between an amateur and a professional is that the professional knows when he does not know, but an amateur does not.
 
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