Advice from a plumber

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Re: Advice from a plumber

Posted by Iwire:

I was just curious why you think it would trip?
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If the hot water heater uses the electricity to cause a spark or arc to ignite the gas, then it just might be possible that GFCI's would be somewhat sensitive to this. Maybe the plumber even knows this, and all the GFCI outlets he suggests are part of his retirement plan!! (5 calls to reset GFCI's by 9:00 and plenty of time left for golf).

But I'm wondering: if this Hot water heater was supplied from a switch in the bedroom, would it trip the arc fault breaker? :D

My hot water heater lights the gas without any electricity at all. I think someone said it uses a thermocouple to charge a Super Cap which provides the umph for the spark.

Steve
 
Re: Advice from a plumber

As Jim Walker can attest that central florida is not called the lightning capitol for no reason :D
 
Re: Advice from a plumber

A few weeks ago I removed a GFCI that had a sewage lift pump plugged into it and replaced it with a single receptacle. Yes it tripped, no it was not fun kneeling down to work on it on the soggy, smelly ground.
 
Re: Advice from a plumber

To be fair, the instructions did say that it was only recommended that the water heater be installed on a non-GFCI outlet. Usually if they are very serious about it, they say things along the lines of DO NOT USE A GFCI-PROTECTED OUTLET!! and IF YOU DO, YOU VOID THE WARRANTY!!.
 
Re: Advice from a plumber

Ever been around when the thunder clap seems like it is directly overhead? It will trip a GFCI receptacle!
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I can't help but disagree. The thunder, which is merely a loud noise caused by the super-heating of the air surrounding the lightning bolt, isn't likely what tripped the GFCI in question. It was more likely the lightning itself, which generated the thunder, that caused the GFCI to trip. It was heard very loudly as if overhead because it probably was.

Bob
 
Re: Advice from a plumber

Well Jim That is what happened and it was about 8 miles from your home.No names but insp 832 an 830 created this fiasco.
Any idea what is involved in megging a completed home ???Disconnect every fixture ,appliance,undo all box connections,grounds included(all bucannans)
Then sit there as the engineer did his thing
5 hrs.Now put it back together what 9 10 hrs.Re finaled then take it apart again for 2nd meg test.reassemble one more final.G.C told me total bill over $4 :roll: 8,000.00 dollars.All this on a $225.00 home
 
Re: Advice from a plumber

Hi There, I am new to the forum. I do a bunch of statistical stuff for electrical manufacturers / UL and the like. Includes things like: Whats the probability a circuit will fail under X conditions when 3 out of 67 000 failed under Y conditions etc etc.

Anyway the most likely reason for the manufacturer to request that the water heater NOT have a GFCI is that the flame burning inside the heater will produce some ionization. Over prolonged burning periods (large amount of water draw) this can manifest as a small charge which may trip the GFCI if it is dissipated through it.

Regards Ann
 
Re: Advice from a plumber

Ann, welcome to the forum. :)

My thought is, why? If the tank tries to build a static charge of some kind, then it should be immediately dissipated through the equipment "grounding" conductors, the water pipe it's attached to, etc.

I don't understand. :)
 
Re: Advice from a plumber

In my ignorance, I can see both sides of this issue.

The plumber, knowing how the T&P valve will spew steam over everything, might think a GFI is a reasonable precaution.

The electrician, knowing how open-air arcs (especially ones that go to ground) are likely to trip the GFI, might want to avoid using one where there is something like an igniter.

Compounding the issue, a couple years ago there was a major re-design of GFI's, said to reduce nuisance tripping.

Electric water heaters would seem to be the one thing to require a GFI-protected circuit; yet, they are not required to be protected.

Does anyone have recent, direct experience with an igniter on a GFI? I can't say whether there would be a problem.
 
Re: Advice from a plumber

Humm - yes George that would seem to be true. I have done calculations for flame ionization and the charge can be substantial, but I agree it should be dissipated through the grounding sytem of the house. On a possibly related note, I recently had a high-end water heater installed in my house - the installations were quite clear that di-electric unions be installed on both the intake and supply water lines. The reason given was to further the preservation of the sacrificial annode in the tank.
 
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