AFCI and GFCI Neutral Pigtail too short

[Jimmy7]

Have you ever spliced the neutral pigtail coming from the afci and gfci breaker because it was too short? I have, and out of curiosity I looked it up with a couple of manufacturer’s websites. It’s kind of rough learning these things after the fact. Is this a big deal in your opinion. What would you do with past installations when things like this are discovered?

 

[ptonsparky]

Too short?!
I almost always cut them off.
Splice if you need to or rearrange the breaker positions.

Still, too short?

 

[Jimmy7]

I found this in Eaton’s AFCI installation instructions

 

[ramsy]

Is this a big deal in your opinion.

IMHO Eaton is not allowing extending the pigtail, when SPD is built-in to the device, a unique feature of Eaton xFCI's.

All instructions for stand alone SPD also specify keeping pigtails as short as possible.

 

[Little Bill]

Too short?!
I almost always cut them off.
Splice if you need to or rearrange the breaker positions.

Still, too short?

I always uncurl the pigtail and cut it off if too long. I think I've only encountered one device where it was too short. I just rearranged the breakers and put the device where the pigtail would reach.

 

[marmathsen]

Too short?!
I almost always cut them off.
Splice if you need to or rearrange the breaker positions.

Still, too short?

Some older panels only have the neutral bar in one corner of the enclosure away from the breakers so almost all of the spaces would need their pigtails extended

Rob G - Seattle

 

[ptonsparky]

Some older panels only have the neutral bar in one corner of the enclosure away from the breakers so almost all of the spaces would need their pigtails extended

Rob G - Seattle

Yes, I can picture them. Not enough holes for neutral and EGs either.

 

[roger]

I would simply go with Eaton's installation instructions in post #3.

 

[Jimmy7]

FYI - Siemens sent me this

 

[Jimmy7]

I have noticed that some 20 amp Eaton breaker neutral pigtails are #14, and that some Siemens 15 amp breaker neutral pigtails are #12 . Out of curiosity, if you were to extend a 15 amp Siemens pigtail with a piece of white #14 (Not paying attention to the gauge of the breaker’s pigtail) because it was a 15 amp would it perform okay even it is technically wrong?

 

[Little Bill]

I have noticed that some 20 amp Eaton breaker neutral pigtails are #14, and that some Siemens 15 amp breaker neutral pigtails are #12 . Out of curiosity, if you were to extend a 15 amp Siemens pigtail with a piece of white #14 (Not paying attention to the gauge of the breaker’s pigtail) because it was a 15 amp would it perform okay even it is technically wrong?

If the splice was correct/tight, I don't see why it would be a problem. Not much difference between #12 & #14.

 

[Jimmy7]

I spoke to Siemens tech support yesterday. They said the #12 pigtail powers the electronics for their 15 Amp afci i breaker. They said it has not been tested with a #14 , so they can’t say for sure that a #14 extension could be a problem or not. There are a couple of jobs where we used Siemens breakers, and I don’t remember if we even had to extend the neutral or not. Knowing my guys, they extended the pigtail with #14 because it was a 15 amp breaker. Is this something that needs to be checked, or do you think this is a non-issue?

 

[ptonsparky]

I spoke to Siemens tech support yesterday. They said the #12 pigtail powers the electronics for their 15 Amp afci i breaker. They said it has not been tested with a #14 , so they can’t say for sure that a #14 extension could be a problem or not. There are a couple of jobs where we used Siemens breakers, and I don’t remember if we even had to extend the neutral or not. Knowing my guys, they extended the pigtail with #14 because it was a 15 amp breaker. Is this something that needs to be checked, or do you think this is a non-issue?

Non-issue.
IMO.

 

[Jimmy7]

Non-issue.
IMO.

Thank you for your reply. Any idea why it would be a #12 in the first place?
Has anyone else ever extended the neutral pigtail with #14 on a 15 amp breaker not bothering to pay attention the pigtail size? If so, was there ever a problem?

 

[curt swartz]

Thank you for your reply. Any idea why it would be a #12 in the first place?
Has anyone else ever extended the neutral pigtail with #14 on a 15 amp breaker not bothering to pay attention the pigtail size? If so, was there ever a problem?

The cost difference between #14 and #12 is next to nothing. Its not worth it for manufactures to use a different sizes for 15 and 20 amp breakers.

The tech support people you are talking to are script readers not engineers. There is no reason you can't extend the tail on a 15 amp breaker with #14.

We frequently use 84 circuit NQOB panelboards for large dwellings especially if using Lutron Homeworks panels. Since the neutral buss is at either the top or bottom of the panel board we are required to extend the AFCI neutral pigtails. We like using butt splices to keep the panel cleaner so will use #12 stranded THHN for the extensions.

 

[LarryFine]

I use the right size (#14 or #12) for the breaker (15a or 20a).

It's none of my business what size the manufacturer uses.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

Too short?!
I almost always cut them off.
Splice if you need to or rearrange the breaker positions.

Still, too short?

Yes, they can be too short of the CB is installed at the bottom of the panel that has a the short neutral bar.

 

[Jimmy7]

I use the right size (#14 or #12) for the breaker (15a or 20a).

It's none of my business what size the manufacturer uses.

Hi Larry,

Just to clarify; you’re saying you have done same thing. Extending the breaker pigtail with the same size at the breaker amperage (Extend a 15 amp breaker’s pigtail with #14). If so, any problems or call backs?

 

[LarryFine]

Hi Larry,

Just to clarify; you’re saying you have done same thing. Extending the breaker pigtail with the same size at the breaker amperage (Extend a 15 amp breaker’s pigtail with #14). If so, any problems or call backs?

Exactamundo, and none.

 

[Jimmy7]

Out of curiosity what would happen if the neutral pigtail failed, any idea? Would the breaker just wouldn’t work, or would the afci or gfci breaker trip?