AFCI costs

[don_resqcapt19]

I don't do any residential work, but I am interested in what you guys who do, think the additional costs to comply with the 2008 code rule that will require the use of the combination type AFCIs for most of the 120 volt circuits in the house. I am working on a new cost benefit analysis based on the new rule. In my fist pass I used an installed cost average of $400 per dwelling unit. Is this even in the ballpark? My look at the numbers shows that if the rule is fully complied with and the AFCIs would prevent 100% of the electrical fires (estimates of the AFCI effectiveness range from 40% to 75%), then in the first year the number of fires that would be prevented is 435 and the cost to prevent these fires would amount to $1,514,470. I ran the numbers out to 20 years and at that point the AFCIs would prevent 14,369 fires that year with a cumulative total of 127,930 fires prevented over the 20 years, but even then the cost to prevent each of these fires would be $170,108.
Note that the biggest reason that there are not a larger number of fires prevented is that a CPSC study shows that 85% of the dwelling unit fires of electrical origin occur in dwelling units that are over 20 years old.
Don

the cost to prevent is per each fire...my original post does not make that clear

 

[cschmid]

good morning Don..... That is allot of of cash saved do you think the insurance companies will give HO a break in their costs of home insurance? I guess that you would need to get an average cost of the AFCI... In Mn if you buy it from the supplier anywhere from 40 to 55 dollars and if you buy it from chain store 35 to 50 dollars a piece... I have not priced the MWBC AFCI and have not used a AFCI/GFCI so no help there....But I would say 400 is on the low side.

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

Note that the biggest reason that there are not a larger number of fires prevented is that a CPSC study shows that 85% of the dwelling unit fires of electrical origin occur in dwelling units that are over 20 years old.
Don

Also note: many fires of unknown origin are branded electrical, as are fires caused by electric heaters which ignite drapes or furniture, neither of which would be prevented by the use of AFCI.

 

[Cavie]

Has anyone seen the new combo type required by the code to be used as of Jan. 1 2008?? How are they identified differently that the precent version????

 

[dnem]

Has anyone seen the new combo type required by the code to be used as of Jan. 1 2008?? How are they identified differently that the precent version????

Only 4 months to go. . It's put up or shut up time.

Do you think they'll deliver the goods ? . I think they'll deliver something that has a "new and improved" label, but what's inside is anybodys guess.

David

 

[peter d]

Only 4 months to go. . It's put up or shut up time.

Yes, now is the time. I only hope they aren't going to rush a product to market and then have to recall it.

It's funny how the GFCI manufacturers can stay a year ahead of the UL changes and have a working product on the market before they improve the requirements.

The AFCI manufacturers have had 13+ years and they still don't have a product on the market that does what everyone needs it to do. I wonder if they ever will be able to pull it off.

 

[ryan_618]

Does anyone know the costs to help Don out?

 

[mdshunk]

Does anyone know the costs to help Don out?

I think 400 bucks is a pretty good estimate for the time being. Some brands/models are half the price of other brands. I suspect very much that economies of mass production will bring that down in a few years.

 

[infinity]

I've never really thought about it since we're not presently installing them. NJ declared their use as optional.

 

[George Stolz]

While the housing market was cruising along, I'd say that around here there were probably four tract homes for every custom built. Just a ballpark guess.

So, of those tracts, typically I had the following:
20A SABC
20A SABC
20A Washer
20A Bathroom
20A Garage/Weatherproof Circuit
15A Garage/Basement Lighting
15A Living Room
15A Master Suite
15A 2nd/3rd Bedroom
15A General Lighting
15A Kitchen Lighting (Den outlets, so forth)

Lookiing at the 2008 ROC:

NEC-2008 210.12(B) Dwelling Units. All 120-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets installed in dwelling unit family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sun rooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, or similar rooms or areas shall be protected by a listed arcfault circuit interrupter, combination-type, installed to provide protection of the branch circuit.?

So, if there are seven circuits in my list requiring AFCI protection at $30/apiece, minus the two that already would have under the 2005 (bedrooms), then there would five more breakers at an additional $150 in the cost of the house under the 2008.

But I have no idea what the cost of the combination type is gonna be, and my $30 apiece figure is at least a year old, FWIW.

 

[mdshunk]

But I have no idea what the cost of the combination type is gonna be, and my $30 apiece figure is at least a year old, FWIW.

What are you talking here... retail or wholesale? I think Don wants something closer to retail to the customer.

 

[dnem]

NEC-2008 210.12(B) Dwelling Units. All 120-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets installed in dwelling unit family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sun rooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, or similar rooms or areas shall be protected by a listed arcfault circuit interrupter, combination-type, installed to provide protection of the branch circuit.

If we look at it the other way, what would not require AFCI ?

Some of the restricted circuits of 210.11(C) are not on the list.
210.11(C)(1) / 210.52(B) kitchen small appliance but dining ones would require them
210.11(C)(2) / 210.52(F) laundry
210.11(C)(3) / 210.52(D) bathroom

Then there’s 210.52(E) outdoors
210.52(G), basement, unfinished or otherwise not considered a "similar room" to the AFCI listed rooms
210.52(G), garage

Did I miss anything ?

David

 

[dnem]

What are you talking here... retail or wholesale? I think Don wants something closer to retail to the customer.

I think George gave him the main info that he needed. . Don can plug in any $ that he chooses.

So, if there are seven circuits in my list requiring AFCI protection ..... minus the two that already would have under the 2005 (bedrooms), then there would five more .....

7-2=5

But of course this only applies to a basic small house. . Anything of size will have quite a few more HRs.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Following on George's analysis, I'd also consider some collateral cost for the additional time taken with the breaker and the homeruns and some additional material.

The breaker will require another minute or two for the neutral makeup.

The AFCI will require testing and time satisfying the inspector that the all the required openings have AFCI protection.

The homerun will not be a multiwire branch circuit because the AFCI of choice will NOT be a pricey two pole unit. I could lay in some 12-2-2 and 14-2-2, to do a single homerun with, but then I have some additional material to source, transport and stage at the site, hence more labor cost.

Most likely I will run 1x-2 homeruns, adding to the labor and material of the install. This seems, to me, to be the fastest. Also, the single pole AFCI and 1x-2 cable, being commodity items, will get the greatest price break.

So, of George's suggested five additional AFCI protected branch circuits in a tract home, three of those will have a labor cost to pull 1x-2 homeruns, support the homerun as necessary, three additional entries at the panel, and three additional cable strips.

Now the cost to the home owner will also include my overhead and profit, so, to the above costs, add "the markup". And, given this is a tract home, include a markup tagged on by the developer of the property for this portion of my work. This, in my estimation then reflects the additional cost to the home owner for 2008 ROC 210.12(B) To me, $80.00 additional, per AFCI for 2008 new coverage areas, seems low.

If the home is more complex than a tract, and if it is more of the custom class, I will add time allowances for the customer relations required for the nuisance trips that lead to customer education about living with safety technology.