AFCI data on home fires 10 yrs later. Any real evidence they work’?

Status
Not open for further replies.
MasterTheNEC said:
LOL
Click to expand...

You think that rooftop derating brought to us courtesy of the Copper Association, or larger than necessary generators brought to us by the generator manufactures, or GFCI protection for dishwashers brought to us by GE were part of a grass roots movement or based on factual data that they were needed?

Well maybe the dishwasher thing since it was GE's solution to the catastrophic end of life problems with their dishwashers.
 
MasterTheNEC said:
... but I can promise you one thing however. They are in the NEC to stay...
Click to expand...

Not if a class action suit finds otherwise, and hopefully that's where it will go. This fraud is costing the American public millions of dollars each year for something that has never been proven to work. The NFPA has been compromised and made a big mistake by allowing it to happen. Hopefully they won't go down with the ship along with the greedy corporate manufacturers who bought them.

-Hal
 
Last edited:
hbiss said:
Not if a class action suit finds otherwise, and hopefully that's where it will go. .....

-Hal
Click to expand...

I was sooooooo very disappointed that the requirement for heating equipment to be AFCI protected was removed from the '17 code. It was our best hope that the right lawyer would be flood damaged due to his furnace nuisance tripping and start the class action process.
 
hbiss said:
Not if a class action suit finds otherwise, and hopefully that's where it will go. This fraud is costing the American public millions of dollars each year for something that has never been proven to work. The NFPA has been compromised and made a big mistake by allowing it to happen. Hopefully they won't go down with the ship along with the greedy corporate manufacturers who bought them.

-Hal
Click to expand...

LOL....yeah..you hold on to that dream...:)
 
ActionDave said:
You think that rooftop derating brought to us courtesy of the Copper Association, or larger than necessary generators brought to us by the generator manufactures, or GFCI protection for dishwashers brought to us by GE were part of a grass roots movement or based on factual data that they were needed?

Well maybe the dishwasher thing since it was GE's solution to the catastrophic end of life problems with their dishwashers.
Click to expand...

All depends on who and what you believe.....and holds the best argument at the table.
 
MasterTheNEC said:
Everyone is most certainly entitled to their opinions for sure. Me personally i gave up the mission trying explain them to people as Im just a code guy so I teach ya how to apply them and let others make it their mission to change the NEC.

Guess those folks who believe they dont function and attempt to expose weaknesses in technology will continue to attempt change one local AHJ at a time but I can promise you one thing however. They are in the NEC to stay so....I find it easier to just teach them and move on these days....
Click to expand...

I don't have a particular bias for or against afci Breakers... as you know, I live in Virginia, and there aren't too many of them in residences yet.

You would be hard-pressed to find any electricians, save for some poor fools doing 680 installs with Pentair pumps and other vfd Drive pumps that do not play nicely with GFCI Breakers from some manufacturers, with anything negative to say about GFCI Breakers or receptacles. Such is not the case with afci Breakers.

I guess that some of the problems with them are due to installation in older buildings where neutrals of different circuits were tied together, and first generation breakers that were too sensitive. That said, the continued negativity toward afci breakers is not simply older electricians who refuse to adopt and adapt to new technology.

It's not up to me disprove (nor you to prove) afci technology, it's up to the manufacturers to prove it. And most of us are still waiting for that proof.

Eta: in theory, and on paper, afci technology is downright awesome. In practice, it leaves a lot to be desired.
 
Last edited:
But I guess I can say this....I gave up holding up their end of the fight when those in the fight (some manufacturers) didn't have their own balls to defend their own fight about their products......so for me i don't care either way as I have seen them work but when they don't step up to fight their own fight I lost interest in carrying the flag.
 
George Stolz said:
Care to expand on that statement?
Click to expand...
Nooooooooo......i have on here in the past and to be honest its futile as I got no minds here I care to change. Also to really be honest I don't care who likes them or hates them anymore..LOL. But I think their are threads on here with my position...

As an educator i focus on teaching what is...what is and based on my 2 weeks recently in Hilton Head, SC they ain't going anywhere.
 
JFletcher said:
I guess that some of the problems with them are due to installation in older buildings where neutrals of different circuits were tied together, and first generation breakers that were too sensitive. That said, the continued negativity toward afci breakers is not simply older electricians who refuse to adopt and adapt to new technology. ...
Click to expand...
For me it was almost exactly the opposite. I had no trouble with the old AFCIs. I kept telling people just do a good job wiring and you won't have any trouble. I got the reputation as a AFCI demon exorcizer. Every time I could track it down to a wiring error.

Then came the day when I got the call of a breaker tripping when the trim carpenters were trying to use their new saw. By the time I sorted it all out it was clearly a nuisance trip. That's when the light came on.

A year later, same problem with power tools nuisance tripping AFCIs on another house that we wired, different brand breaker. After the HOs moved in I get a call asking why the TV conks out about once a week. Same house had trouble with LEDs nuisance tripping. Called GE, got a whole speech about how hard it is to sort out electronic noise but we'll send some new breakers right away. These were better than the ones on the shelf just six months ago I was told. After that I had no doubt that AFCI was a scam no matter how the story gets told.
 
MasterTheNEC said:
But I guess I can say this....I gave up holding up their end of the fight when those in the fight (some manufacturers) didn't have their own balls to defend their own fight about their products......so for me i don't care either way as I have seen them work but when they don't step up to fight their own fight I lost interest in carrying the flag.
Click to expand...

You've never seen them work preventing a real fire in a residence because they can't.

The manufactures have fessed up that AFCI technology is bogus, that they were forced into the code, and they are beta testing them on the American public while making a profit on them at the same time. I posted the article from Electrical Contractor a year or two ago.
 
It's not a scam, it's perfectly reasonable to occasionally encounter five deadly latent fire hazards on five different circuits in the same six month old panel for no apparent reason. It's a true joy to be able to share in the experience with a skeptical public.
 
But someone with deep pockets is going to have to come up with conclusive evidence and that's a little like proving UFOs exist. You have the manufacturers who swear they are effective and on the other hand absolutely no evidence that they have ever prevented even one fire or saved one life. It's all based on hearsay and conjecture because there is no way that statistical data can be determined, and manufacturers know it.

So basically it's all smoke and mirrors to get you think that it's worth it for Americans to pay millions of dollars a year and put up with the inconvenience solely on the say so of manufacturers who claim their products save lives- while reaping billions in profits.

-Hal
 
ActionDave said:
You've never seen them work preventing a real fire in a residence because they can't.

The manufactures have fessed up that AFCI technology is bogus, that they were forced into the code, and they are beta testing them on the American public while making a profit on them at the same time. I posted the article from Electrical Contractor a year or two ago.
Click to expand...

LOL....OK
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top