AFCI for dwelling unit bedrooms & other rooms ???

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mjc

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Have a residential addition of a bedroom, bathroom, and Laundry room without a Phyisical door separating the bedroom from the laundry. The laundry is a sepatate area off the bedroom by a 32" walkway. All outlets associated with the bedroom area are AFCI protected. Outlets in the laundry area walkway are on a laundry circuit. The inspector did not approve a final inspection, he's saying that the laundry circuit (which has nothing to do with the bedroom) needs to be AFCI protected because "There is no physical door on the laundry area".
--Just so everyone knows: FWIW, where a door would go across the two areas, on the bedroom side there is an AFCI protcted outlet, and with-in 3 feet (horzotally) in the laundry area theres another outlet on the Laundry Circuit. Please correct me if I'm wrong but 210.12 B says nothing about the above situation, Short of getting on the phone with the chief inspector I need to consult with this forum first. Seems like this guy is making rules as he goes , I'm not aware of this.

Please Help--
Thanks in advance, Mike
 
210.12(B) says that "outlets installed in dwelling unit bedrooms shall be protected" by AFCI. It does not say anything about outlets that are close to bedrooms, or outlets that are in areas that have no doors between the area and a bedroom.

This Inspector seems to have conceded that the laundry area is a separate area, and that the laundry area is not in the bedroom. At that point, he has lost the argument. An outlet that is in the laundry area is not an outlet in the bedroom. So it does not need AFCI.
 
mjc said:
Have a residential addition of a bedroom, bathroom, and Laundry room without a Phyisical door separating the bedroom from the laundry. The laundry is a sepatate area off the bedroom by a 32" walkway. All outlets associated with the bedroom area are AFCI protected. Outlets in the laundry area walkway are on a laundry circuit. The inspector did not approve a final inspection, he's saying that the laundry circuit (which has nothing to do with the bedroom) needs to be AFCI protected because "There is no physical door on the laundry area".
--Just so everyone knows: FWIW, where a door would go across the two areas, on the bedroom side there is an AFCI protcted outlet, and with-in 3 feet (horzotally) in the laundry area theres another outlet on the Laundry Circuit. Please correct me if I'm wrong but 210.12 B says nothing about the above situation, Short of getting on the phone with the chief inspector I need to consult with this forum first. Seems like this guy is making rules as he goes , I'm not aware of this.

Please Help--
Thanks in advance, Mike
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Don't be afraid to call the inspector, just because he is an inspector does not mean he knows what is right or what the code is.
ACT like you know better & intimidate him into explaining his reasons and insist he gives you code references!
 
77401 said:
Don't be afraid to call the inspector, just because he is an inspector does not mean he knows what is right or what the code is.
ACT like you know better & intimidate him into explaining his reasons and insist he gives you code references!
Click to expand...

I agree. Call him/her on it.
 
ACT like you know better & intimidate him into explaining his reasons and insist he gives you code references!
Click to expand...

OR you could calll him and have an intelligent conversation, explain your position, and ask for a code reference.

I don't think that intimidating the inspector will help.

Chris
 
Charlie, this is exactly what I think.
I purposely put an additional Bedroom receptacle outlet thats AFCI protected near the laundry outlet (as noted in my post) so that the owner would not need to enter another area in order to access a Receptacle.

Forgot to mention that: In the inspectors words-- we have been taught at electrical inspector seminars that " since the laundry area doesn't have a door it would be considered one room, just as if a BEDROOM walkin closet has a door it would not require an AFCI protection".

Boy am I confused now! , that just seems to open a whole new can of worms. ????????????????

Mike
 
You guys are not only NEC dependable but by the time I typed a reply to Charlie there were three more replies.

Thanks all !!! Mike
 
So by the reasoning of this inspector, if the bedroom doesn't have a door then the whole house has to be AFCI protected?

I agree with Charlie, a bedroom can be just an area and doesn't have to be seperated by a door.

Chris
 
raider1 said:
OR you could calll him and have an intelligent conversation, explain your position, and ask for a code reference.

I don't think that intimidating the inspector will help.

Chris
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I have a good working relationship with the many Inspectors I have to work with. I have been able to call or e-mail them with questions or clarifications to their interpretation of the code.

Sometimes it's not what you say but how you say it.
 
I have a good working relationship with the many Inspectors I have to work with. I have been able to call or e-mail them with questions or clarifications to their interpretation of the code.

Sometimes it's not what you say but how you say it.
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I agree, I have a good relationship with most of the contractors in my area, but there are a few that call me and try to "intimidate" me. I am more then happy to call and talk to a contractor about a call I have made, as long as the conversation remains civil.

Chris
 
I get along fine with most inspectors but if i feel they are wrong i will call them on it.Sometimes i win sometimes not.They cite code number and i go read it first.The chief is my last choice and i have had to call them a few times.
 
charlie b said:
210.12(B) says that "outlets installed in dwelling unit bedrooms shall be protected" by AFCI. It does not say anything about outlets that are close to bedrooms, or outlets that are in areas that have no doors between the area and a bedroom.

This Inspector seems to have conceded that the laundry area is a separate area, and that the laundry area is not in the bedroom. At that point, he has lost the argument. An outlet that is in the laundry area is not an outlet in the bedroom. So it does not need AFCI.
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I'm not near my code book, but doesn't it actually say that all branch circuits supplying outlets installed in dwelling unit bedrooms shall have AFCIs?

Having picked that nit, I have to agree that a laundry area is a laundry area and not a bedroom. In this instance, the laundry circuit(s) would only have to be AFCI protected if there was an outlet on that circuit located in a bedroom (e.g. the circuit that supplied a receptacle in the laundry area also had a bedroom smoke detector on it.) Of course, the "official" laundry circuit cannot be in the bedroom, since it can supply no other outlets.
 
I have no objections to picking nits, Mike. In fact, if nits are not picked, then lice and other parasitic insects will grow to adulthood.

But in this case, I quoted only that portion of the sentence that I felt relevant to the point I was making. The rest of that same sentence says that the entire branch circuit must have AFCI protection, if it powers any bedroom outlet.
 
mjc said:
In the inspectors words-- we have been taught at electrical inspector seminars that " since the laundry area doesn't have a door it would be considered one room, just as if a BEDROOM walkin closet has a door it would not require an AFCI protection".
Click to expand...
It's time you showed that Inspector "Charlie's Rule":

(The code) doesn't say what you think it says, . . . , nor what you were told that it says. . . ."
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If you haven't got one of the stickers that Mike Holt is giving away for free, send me a PM with an email address. I'll send you a pdf file that shows the entire rule.
 
raider1 said:
So by the reasoning of this inspector, if the bedroom doesn't have a door then the whole house has to be AFCI protected?
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Only the areas that don't have their own door.
 
raider1 said:
Agreed, but that could still lead to AFCI protection of a large portion of the home.:D

Chris
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And I was going to ask if I had to take down all my doors when I removed my bedroom door. Thanks for clarifying that for me.:rolleyes:
 
Just got off the phone with the inspector , Politely spoke and asked if he would direct me to a code reference that could clear up this matter. He insists that this is all one room (bedroom) and the laundry circuit must be AFCI protected. When I asked again where I could find this as a code reference he wouldnt direct me to anything except what he has been told in seminars and directed me to 90.4 . This #^#^#^# says he's the chief inspector and I could tell there will be no satisfaction because what he says goes. Just what do we do ???? (or do I ignore him get paid and move on)

Mike
 
Certainly the locality has appeal procedures for such circumstances. How far are you willing to take it?

"Now what are you prepared to do?!" ~ Sean Connery in The Untouchables


(Note: I agree with you)
 
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