jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
Dennis, I am confused-you say you agree with Don and then say AFCI protection is required..I thought Don was saying the opposite.:?
AFCI for FCU?
- Thread starter George Stolz
- Start date
- Status
Dennis, I am confused-you say you agree with Don and then say AFCI protection is required..I thought Don was saying the opposite.:?
bullheimer
Senior Member
- Location
- WA
again, whats voltage? 240V i guess you wouldnt have posted.
for a dedicated appliance then not required, at least not here anyway. it is a single recept and notta duplex obviously as well. i live in a place where afci protection is only reqd in bedrooms and those rooms accessible to the master bedroom: closets, bath lights etc. fan would probably be on that circuit anyway so....
for a dedicated appliance then not required, at least not here anyway. it is a single recept and notta duplex obviously as well. i live in a place where afci protection is only reqd in bedrooms and those rooms accessible to the master bedroom: closets, bath lights etc. fan would probably be on that circuit anyway so....
Outlet: A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment.
Wouldn't the entire recessed fixture be considered the "utilization equipment," making the JB the outlet?
wirebender
Senior Member
- Location
- North Central Texas
I would say the lamp is the utilization equipment.
Utilization Equipment. Equipment that utilizes electric
energy for electronic, electromechanical, chemical, heating,
lighting, or similar purposes
The fixture does not use energy, IMO.
Utilization Equipment. Equipment that utilizes electric
energy for electronic, electromechanical, chemical, heating,
lighting, or similar purposes
The fixture does not use energy, IMO.
- Location
- Tennessee NEC:2017
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrician
Here, if it's 120V and in the required room, it gets AFCI, no exceptions!
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
I was talking about the heating system. The light IMO needs afci
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
I was thinking it was a air handler with a coil no heat strips etc.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
The code wording does not support that. Circuits that supply outlets in an attic do not require AFCI protection
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_coil_unit
These are tied into the water heater for heating the apartment.
They are 120v.
I say yes because it is recessed into the ceiling ,Just like a recessed light would be.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
The fan unit is not what I thought so I change my vote to AFCI required. At least I believe that to be what the CMP would require. Now why is a 240 Unit not required to be afci-- that is another story.
It should be because they have two pole AFCI breakers,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Good point however.....:thumbsup:
Can I change my vote?
Can I change my vote?
Thanks for explaining what a fan coil is. Agreed, the outlet is Not actually in the bedroom.
But It seems to me the design of the AFCI breaker is to protect the wiring in the walls/ceiling as well as what gets hooked to the outlet.
Even if not required by the NEC, I always thought that was the intent.
Can I change my vote?
Thanks for explaining what a fan coil is. Agreed, the outlet is Not actually in the bedroom.
But It seems to me the design of the AFCI breaker is to protect the wiring in the walls/ceiling as well as what gets hooked to the outlet.
Even if not required by the NEC, I always thought that was the intent.
Buck Parrish
Senior Member
- Location
- NC & IN
Lately, all the ones we have been doing are 2 pole. We wire the outside condensing unit. The hvac guy has some type of souped up cable that is allowed reccessed in walls. So they run the the two pole with the thermostat wires in the same casing. (Inspections and permits)
They have built in fuses in the outside unit.
LG makes a GREAT one. You can barely hear it.
Now I'm not sure about the voltage that allows this/ I assumed it was 240. But hell it might be some sort of DC. or AC below 24 volts. I'm not sure and will be sure to check and let you know.
You know when these first came out people didn't mind noise for cool air conditioning. But they wanted the heat to be silent like they are use to with a central heat system.
But since George mentined outlet, perhaps I'm off base. Or they're using an older type cheap one like in a motel.
That LG has a speed controll on it. When it turns on it powers up slowly as to keep qiuet. If you're on a slab it is definetly a good alternative to central.
They have built in fuses in the outside unit.
LG makes a GREAT one. You can barely hear it.
Now I'm not sure about the voltage that allows this/ I assumed it was 240. But hell it might be some sort of DC. or AC below 24 volts. I'm not sure and will be sure to check and let you know.
You know when these first came out people didn't mind noise for cool air conditioning. But they wanted the heat to be silent like they are use to with a central heat system.
But since George mentined outlet, perhaps I'm off base. Or they're using an older type cheap one like in a motel.
That LG has a speed controll on it. When it turns on it powers up slowly as to keep qiuet. If you're on a slab it is definetly a good alternative to central.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
Kind of makes one think a little, if that is true then AFCI is not going to be required on most recessed lighting because the "outlet" is not in the room that requires AFCI protection. Good luck convincing most inspectors that this is the intent of the rule.
Based on that, the fan coil in the OP doesn't use energy either, just the motor does. The motor is in analogy the same to the fan coil as the lamp is to the luminaire.
Now consider the fact that a recessed light may or may not be "in the room", or even the possibility that the junction box may be the "outlet" and is not "in the room".
I think your question was answered, about the wiring above the bedroom, wiring not serving the bedroom is not prohibited from being above, below or in the walls of the bedroom and also is not required to be AFCI protected.
I have other comments in this post on that.
Don't think someday this will never be a requirement, it very well may be.
A switch is not an outlet, you can have switches in living room, bedroom, etc. on non AFCI protected circuits that operate loads in areas where AFCI protection is not required. A switch for an outdoor light is an example of where this could happen.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
It is my opinion that the code wording does not require AFCI protection for the circuit that serves a recessed lighting fixture. I believe that the code intent is to provided that protection, but the code wording does not reflect that intent.
- Location
- Tennessee NEC:2017
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrician
Well you consider the fact that the inspectors here require it whether I agree or not!
We don't kick up much fuss here over the AFCI requirements, even some we find questionable, because AFCI is only required in bedrooms and we know it could be worse!
Sierrasparky
Senior Member
- Location
- USA
- Occupation
- Electrician ,contractor
First of all the code says oulet , the CMP removed the word receptacle outlet.
Not all outlets have receptacles , however all receptacles are outlets.
That being said. Why only outlets in a dwelling within the conditioned space seem to need either afci , GFCI or both but outlets in an attc do not. I suppose a arc will not occur at a attic outlet.
See what we did not know is that ARC's and resulting fires are smart and know never to occur in a attic or crawlspace. :rant:
Not all outlets have receptacles , however all receptacles are outlets.
That being said. Why only outlets in a dwelling within the conditioned space seem to need either afci , GFCI or both but outlets in an attc do not. I suppose a arc will not occur at a attic outlet.
See what we did not know is that ARC's and resulting fires are smart
and know never to occur in a attic or crawlspace. :rant:
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
Well you consider the fact that the inspectors here require it whether I agree or not!
We don't kick up much fuss here over the AFCI requirements, even some we find questionable, because AFCI is only required in bedrooms and we know it could be worse!
I guess this comes up less often than one might think, put other outlets on the circuit that do require AFCI protection and they are going to be protected anyway.
- Status