AFCI In Bathroom….

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"AFCI" devices
Another Failed Concept Inside
 
I have heard rumors (from multiple people) that a fire in Troy Aikman's home in Dallas was caused by a piece of heavy furniture pinching a 2 wire lamp cord in a bedroom on the hot side only. The arcing that followed as strands of wire broke caught the carpet on fire. I do not know if this is true or not. But it is rumored that this was one of the reasons for implementing AFCI's.
 
Rick 0920 said:
I have heard rumors (from multiple people) that a fire in Troy Aikman's home in Dallas was caused by a piece of heavy furniture pinching a 2 wire lamp cord in a bedroom on the hot side only. The arcing that followed as strands of wire broke caught the carpet on fire. I do not know if this is true or not. But it is rumored that this was one of the reasons for implementing AFCI's.
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Who is Troy Aikman? But that story actually wouldn't surprise me as the CMP's are great at implementing a change that costs consumers millions of dollars from a single incident with no thought on cost vs benefit - heck they do it when there are no incidents at all. Some people need to go to prison for the AFCI scam.
 
electrofelon said:
Who is Troy Aikman? But that story actually wouldn't surprise me as the CMP's are great at implementing a change that costs consumers millions of dollars from a single incident with no thought on cost vs benefit - heck they do it when there are no incidents at all. Some people need to go to prison for the AFCI scam.
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Troy Aikman was a quarterback for the Dallas Cowboys. In the late 90's he built a home in Dallas and just a few months after moving in, his home caught fire. That's all I know. I have heard that this incident as well as many others were the catalyst for the AFCI frustrations we have today.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Imo, the reason is for safety of the individual who may be in the shower at night and the afci trips. Think of granny in the shower (well don't really think about that to hard) and grandpa isn't home. For some reason the afci trips and now granny is stuck in the shower in totally darkness.

I am guessing it is because of situations like that but it is just a guess.
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Why isn't the lighting on a different circuit from the outlets? Yes, you can probably put a LOT of stuff on one circuit, but don't be a Scrooge! Spring for the separate lighting circuit!
 
PaulMmn said:
Why isn't the lighting on a different circuit from the outlets?
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Separating lights from receptacles doesn't matter with 210.12

NFPA-70 always used the word "Receptacles" for 210.8 new work GFCI's, and 406.4(D) old-work replacements, but decided to shake it up by using the word "outlets" for 210.12 new work AFCI's.
 
electrofelon said:
Some people need to go to prison for the AFCI scam.
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AFCI's filter out laborer shops & general contractors, that refuse to hire skills that can read instructions.

The only way these shops pass electrical inspections, is by lobbying legislators to amend out AFCI's.
 
ramsy said:
I take it your Lutron duplex is a Decora, exclusively for kitchens & laundry?
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The OP was about bathrooms so my reply was about the circuit supplying bathroom receptacles.

We install Lutron devices with screw-less plates for may projects. I think the Lutron (Hubbell device with Lutron face) GFCI receptacles are pushing $50. Its more cost effective to use a GFCI or DF breaker. For bathrooms we sometimes use GFCI breakers but prefer the plug-on neutral DF breakers. For kitchen we use DF breakers no matter which brand device is being used. The DF breaker is less expensive than the AFCI breaker and GFCI receptacle.

When I built my own house a few years ago I use all Lutron devcies. Lighting is RadioRA dimmers and keypads. All 15 an 20 amp circuits with the exception of the furnace, a couple of exterior receptacles on dedicated circuits and landscape lighting are on QO AF or DF breakers.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Imo, the reason is for safety of the individual who may be in the shower at night and the afci trips. Think of granny in the shower (well don't really think about that to hard) and grandpa isn't home. For some reason the afci trips and now granny is stuck in the shower in totally darkness.

I am guessing it is because of situations like that but it is just a guess.
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I think if that were the reason they would be better off requiring battery backup lighting in such locations. Power could be lost at any time.
FionaZuppa said:
Plug in a 1200w hairdryer into a AF, then yank the plug out while dryer is still running.
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I'd bet a pretty large amount that won't make them trip. You interrupt the same current when you turn it off with the switch on the unit, you just can't see the arc that occurs inside the switch.
 
Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:
I’m certainly not complaining, just surprised they haven’t Ram-rodded it down our throats yet.

I personally would like to see AFCI requirements removed, unless and until the technology catches up to their intended purpose.

GFCIs, on the other hand, I have no issue with at all.
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I lean a little towards 4-6 mA being too low of a trip setting, but I don't lean too hard. 4-6 mA is probably fine for what was required to be GFCI protected back in 1996 or so, most of what has been added since then could very well be on 30mA trip level and still be very effective.
 
Rick 0920 said:
I have heard rumors (from multiple people) that a fire in Troy Aikman's home in Dallas was caused by a piece of heavy furniture pinching a 2 wire lamp cord in a bedroom on the hot side only. The arcing that followed as strands of wire broke caught the carpet on fire. I do not know if this is true or not. But it is rumored that this was one of the reasons for implementing AFCI's.
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Likely started by people who wanted to elevate the role Troy Aikman played in everyone's lives. For a lot of Texans, Aikman was akin to a minor God in the 90s.

PLANO, Texas - Just a few weeks after moving into a $3.2 million home that took more than two years to build, Dallas Cowboys quarterback Troy Aikman is going to have to fix up the place.

A three-alarm fire that began in an attic over the garage around 7:30 a.m. Wednesday caused up to $250,000 in damage, said Monique Cardwell, a spokeswoman for the Plano Fire Department.
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So unless that lamp cord was plugged in and that attic was being used as a living space just months after the house was built, the lamp cord story is highly unlikely.
 
Jraef said:
Likely started by people who wanted to elevate the role Troy Aikman played in everyone's lives. For a lot of Texans, Aikman was akin to a minor God in the 90s.


So unless that lamp cord was plugged in and that attic was being used as a living space just months after the house was built, the lamp cord story is highly unlikely.
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That fire should have started in vicinity of the pinched cord, presuming enough current would flow and it could sustain the arc long enough and get hot enough to ignite surrounding materials. 120 volts can't sustain an arc very well at all without intervention by adding more conductive material to the path or move electrodes of the arc closer together as they become consumed by the arc. Ask anyone that does any arc welding how you sustain the arc at these lower voltages.
 
My point was that the story of it being a lamp cord pinched by furniture is unlikely because the fire started in the attic of a garage, in a new house that had just been finished 2 months earlier. So it's not that a pinched lamp cord couldn't have started a fire, it's that this story is unlikely because it claims to have been in a place that was unlikely to have an energized lamp cord and furniture to begin with.
 
On the NFPA website I read a month ago a discussion of a proposed TIA to require AFCI in bathrooms. I will go back and see if I can find it.
 
Jraef said:
Likely started by people who wanted to elevate the role Troy Aikman played in everyone's lives. For a lot of Texans, Aikman was akin to a minor God in the 90s.


So unless that lamp cord was plugged in and that attic was being used as a living space just months after the house was built, the lamp cord story is highly unlikely.
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Thanks for the clarification on the story.
 
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