AFCI in existing home

[electricman2]

Has anyone been required to AFCI outlets for smoke detectors installed in bedrooms of existing homes? I was asked this week to install smokes in 3 bedrooms of a house probably built late 60?s or so. I told HO that AHJ may require them to be AFCI. By phone inspector said that would not be required since this was an existing home. I was required to AFCI protect receptacle outlets I installed in the bedroom of another older home.

 

[brantmacga]

according to the NEC they need to be AFCI protected. this would be a new installation.

 

[mdshunk]

The inspector let you off easy, which wasn't really rightfully something he can do in this case. It's in a bedroom, it's 120 volt, and it's new... it gets AFCI protected. Tapping off an existing circuit, you say? Fine, AFCI protect that whole existing circuit since you added new stuff to it.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Has anyone been required to AFCI outlets for smoke detectors installed in bedrooms of existing homes?

You bet. The AHJs in my area have made it a point to publish the statement that all new outlets in existing beds, under the 2005 NEC, must have AFCI protection.

Now, I can sweet talk an occasional inspector to make an exception for a particular job. . .but, not every job.

 

[Fordy]

The inspector let you off easy, which wasn't really rightfully something he can do in this case. It's in a bedroom, it's 120 volt, and it's new... it gets AFCI protected. Tapping off an existing circuit, you say? Fine, AFCI protect that whole existing circuit since you added new stuff to it.

What if an apartment you want to add 120 volt smoke alarms to has a Federal Pacific Stablok Panel and Arc Fault Breakers are not available for it.

 

[nakulak]

What if an apartment you want to add 120 volt smoke alarms to has a Federal Pacific Stablok Panel and Arc Fault Breakers are not available for it.

get out the wrecking ball and hoe rams, tear down the building and do it all again to make sure its compliant with the latest version of the NEC

 

[CHWflorida]

What if an apartment you want to add 120 volt smoke alarms to has a Federal Pacific Stablok Panel and Arc Fault Breakers are not available for it.

You may be able to install a wireless detector system and install the "master" outside of any bedroom. I've never used these, but I believe only one of them requires 120v and the others are battery only. Our ahj will allow this for existing homes where we would be required to add smokes per building code when upgrading service.

 

[ultramegabob]

What if an apartment you want to add 120 volt smoke alarms to has a Federal Pacific Stablok Panel and Arc Fault Breakers are not available for it.

install a arc-fault recept at the begining of your circuit, usually right below the panel is an easy place, I dont know if they make dead front arc-faults yet.... better yet, find the fist recept feeding the bedrooms and install the recept there and feed your smokes from the bedrooms, thus brining the bedrooms up to date at the same time

 

[mdshunk]

install a arc-fault recept at the begining of your circuit, usually right below the panel is an easy place, I dont know if they make dead front arc-faults yet.... better yet, find the fist recept feeding the bedrooms and install the recept there and feed your smokes from the bedrooms, thus brining the bedrooms up to date at the same time

They don't even make arc fault receptacles. The code permits their use, but nobody happens to make them.

The fact that arc fault breakers are not made for a certain panel is no relief from the AFCI requirement. Replace the panel or subfeed out of it to a little panel that is of a brand you can get AFCI's for. Those are your main two options.

 

[ultramegabob]

well, it sure sounded like a hell of an idea.... I thought they made afci recepts, but what do I know, Indiana doesnt require the use of AFCI protection at all....

 

[electricman2]

What if an apartment you want to add 120 volt smoke alarms to has a Federal Pacific Stablok Panel and Arc Fault Breakers are not available for it.

In this case the panel was an old Square D FSB fuse panel. I could have put a 30A plug-in pull out in it and went to a small 2 space panel with a 15A AFCI breaker but he said not required and the HO wasn't about to pay for something he did not have to.

 

[al hildenbrand]

What if an apartment you want to add 120 volt smoke alarms to has a Federal Pacific Stablok Panel and Arc Fault Breakers are not available for it.

Well, Fordy, I'd say, given ELI's clear statements on the matter, the only relief the owner of the apartment building will get will come from a conversation with the inspectors that will inspect the building.

Being clear about the local smoke detector ordinance will be necessary. The number of units in the apartment building may also be important, depending upon whether local, or State, smoke detector ordinance is in play.

That is, does the smoke really have to be line powered?

The FPE problem, as noted above, is handled by installing a subpanel. If the existing branch circuit is in good enough shape to reside peacefully on an AFCI, then one can simply reconnect on the AFCI. . . .That simplistic idea assumes a lot! The existing circuit can't be a multiwire (at least not yet, until two pole combo AFCIs are sold) and the entire circuit has to be in good condition without neutral - EGC connections. Also, any of the existing splices must be solid, and the receptacle contacts and switch mechanisms need to work reliably with minimal, or no, arcing. If you can vouch for this, or want to gamble that the existing branch circuit is this good, then, re-connect it to the AFCI.

Otherwise, run a new homerun.

 

[ssmith9]

AFCI's & panel change out

AFCI's & panel change out

Does a panel change out in an existing home need to include AFCI protection of the Bedroom circuits?

Some AHJ?s indicate that 210.12(B) only applies to new residences. I do not see anything in article 210 that would indicate only new residences.