AFCI installation problems: data requested

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winnie

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Springfield, MA, USA
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Electric motor research
I noticed an interesting 'change of perspective' shown in the 'AFCI Absolution' thread http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=98436

The basis of most of the discussion in the thread was that AFCIs are detecting _real_ wiring flaws. The flaws might be difficult or expensive to find, and it may be difficult to explain to the customer why these flaws are showing up now, but that the flaws are real. The only comment alluding to actual _false_ tripping was brant's mention of 'your vacuum may not work'...

On another AFCI thread, one poster commented that _all_ AFCI problems that he had seen were installation flaws, _not_ problems with the AFCIs themselves. http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?p=823690#post823690

But in the past several years, the idea of actual _false_ tripping has been brought up as one of the major arguments against AFCIs.

With the above in mind, I'd like to suggest this thread as a place to record your actual experiences with AFCI tripping, the steps that you took to locate the cause of the tripping, and what you did to resolve the issue. In particular, the goal is to identify if the AFCI was tripping because of a subtle but _real_ wiring flaw ( say a nail through romex, that wasn't causing a short, a neutral to ground contact, a loose screw, etc.) or if the AFCI was tripping because of _normal_ operation of a load on a _proper_ circuit.

I'd request that discussions of the merits, costs, or politics of AFCIs please be kept out of this thread, so that this thread becomes a source of real (if non-rigorous) field data regarding AFCI installations and problems.

-Jon
 
Just last week we got a trouble call for a new house that we wired. (The builder called us as the house is unsold/unoccupied.) One of the AFCI's was tripping.

It was a very simple problem and fix - a ground wire was touching the neutral screws on a receptacle when it got folded back into the box.

So obviously this was a clear cut case of an AFCI "finding" a wiring error. However, the problem also could have been found by doing a simple continuity check on all the cables before they got landed on the neutral/ground bar and breakers.
 
Last Fall, as the carpenter attempted to start cutting trim, his year old Hitachi compound miter tripped any Branch/Feeder AFCI it was plugged into. GFIs were not tripped. Standard breakers were not tripped.

BillsAFCITrippingSawWeb4.jpg


The job was a gut of an existing two story dwelling with ALL new wiring. He gave up and ran a cord to the bath. I spent some time eliminating the branch circuit as a cause.
 
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electricmanscott said:
My stories coming soon. Just wanted to reserve my spot near the top of the thread.
Click to expand...
We already know how much you hate these devices and I'm feeling your pain. Is there more :-? I'm reserving my spot too but we're not reequired to use them here in NJ yet. I'm hating them already !!!
 
winnie said:
With the above in mind, I'd like to suggest this thread as a place to record your actual experiences with AFCI tripping, the steps that you took to locate the cause of the tripping, and what you did to resolve the issue. In particular, the goal is to identify if the AFCI was tripping because of a subtle but _real_ wiring flaw ( say a nail through romex, that wasn't causing a short, a neutral to ground contact, a loose screw, etc.) or if the AFCI was tripping because of _normal_ operation of a load on a _proper_ circuit.

I'd request that discussions of the merits, costs, or politics of AFCIs please be kept out of this thread, so that this thread becomes a source of real (if non-rigorous) field data regarding AFCI installations and problems.

-Jon
Click to expand...
****BUMP****
 
Most of the problems I've had w/ afci's tripping was due to clamps being too tight in a metal box, or conductors 'digging in' to the bottom of the clamps. I've also had problems w/ some ceiling fans in which case we have the GC return them for another. Sometimes we go through a couple of fans before getting one that doesn't trip. I went on a trouble call once where someone wired a septic tank lift pump off a bedroom afci circuit and was tripping the breaker.
 
Ok so i rna itno a sitution when installling and tsting some new Square D QO-CAFCI brekaers would not trip using the test button. I called Square D and found out that there is a problem with certain parts of the denver area that have a poor power quality that the CAFCI Breakers will not reconize and trip. Square D just found out about this problem and have redesigned the software to deal with the poor power quality issues. Square D is not issuing a reacll but will replace any CAFCI brekaers no charge but Square D has to send the Breakers from the factory as all the ones on the market were made prior to Square D finding the problem
 
am not totally up to par with power qauilty and exacttly how it works. Square D told it is the sign wave signiture that the CAFI looks for and that the sign wave from excel ENrgy is in the area I am having probelms is not a normal sign wave / sign wave appears to square?
I understand that Square D has sent there eniginers to Denver and figured and discoverd the sign wave problems
Hell I am just a stuipd sparky not a good old Engineer
 
Branch circuit type(non combo) trips when paddel fans change speeds,customer lives with it I guess .... the news one don't have this problem I'm told...I should give them a call:smile:
 
I had a newly rewired house with an AFCI breaker tripping in a bedroom when the ceiling fan was turned on. I checked out the fan and pulled the switch out of the box and checked the wiring. I then reset the AFCI and tried the fan again with the same results. After that I pulled all the receptacles out of the boxes and inspected the wiring, finding nothing. I also went into the basement and inspected the circuit run but nothing obviously wrong. Then with all the devices still wired up but pulled out of the boxes I reset the AFCI and tried the fan again. This time it worked without tripping the AFCI. Strange... So, I carefully folded the wires at each device and gently reinstalled them. Everything works perfectly now.
:cool:
 
ElectronSam I may have spoken too soon was this a combo AFCI??

I had done some research at the time and found out that the capacitance involved with many speed controls whether in the fan or separate device that was responsible,.. I thought that was corrected though
 
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Electron_Sam78 said:
I had a newly rewired house with an AFCI breaker tripping in a bedroom when the ceiling fan was turned on. I checked out the fan and pulled the switch out of the box and checked the wiring. I then reset the AFCI and tried the fan again with the same results. After that I pulled all the receptacles out of the boxes and inspected the wiring, finding nothing. I also went into the basement and inspected the circuit run but nothing obviously wrong. Then with all the devices still wired up but pulled out of the boxes I reset the AFCI and tried the fan again. This time it worked without tripping the AFCI. Strange... So, I carefully folded the wires at each device and gently reinstalled them. Everything works perfectly now.
:cool:
Click to expand...

The first place to check is at the breaker. Remove the white wire from the breaker and then check for continuity to ground. This way you'll know if it was in fact the way the wires were folded in the box (ground fault). A circuit tracer works good for finding which outlet is at fault instead of pulling every one out.
 
we had one where the circuit worked fine for awhile then it started to trip it would trip with nothing on it..found it to be the way the wires were folded into the box..we use pigtails on everything and when the wires were pushed into the box with a hammer handle it cause to much of a kink in the neutral wire shortened wires and put new pig tails on and problem solved..

Also customers complain about there old vacuums tripping the breaker after testing several circuits we found the vacuums to be the problem..even bought couple of dirt devils and tried new ones no problem with circuit tripping on start up..Sold vacuum at a lose to keep customers happy..:grin:
 
Link between migraines and AFCI'S found

Link between migraines and AFCI'S found

I experienced my first headache last week with the new AFCI breakers. Whenever either the light or the fan was turned on the breaker tripped. Thought it was the fan, because you would have the pull chains in the off position, the circuit holds. took down fan and put a light on the circuit, and it tripped. Tried to test for continuity, no luck. At this time all wires were disconnected and tested, and my headache was "this big". My head was pounding, and i was tired, time to go home for the weekend. Next week I purchased some headache prevention"megger". Tested circuits. Let me know if im right Mark. Number keeps going up is good insulation, ground to neutral shows 0 resistance immediately . I as an apprentence "megger man" believed I have found the Evil wire. The neutral, I removed the offending wire from the receptacles it was on, and jumped a new wire across to test. Viola it worked. The megger I purched is a Fluke 1507. Oh and then I replaced the wire for real. Wires will now be tested at rough in, back charges for bad wires at trim out.
 
M. D. said:
ElectronSam I may have spoken too soon was this a combo AFCI??

I had done some research at the time and found out that the capacitance involved with many speed controls whether in the fan or separate device that was responsible,.. I thought that was corrected though
Click to expand...

No, this was not a combo type AFCI.
 
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