AFCI Locations….

[acrwc10]

Good question.

I have seen plans and/or built/worked on residential structures that would have a room drawn as an office, and therefore window egress requirements would not apply.

I doubt this will fly in many jurisdictions, if the "home office" is on an exterior wall and could meet the requirements of a bedroom, it's a bedroom no matter what you call it.

 

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

I doubt this will fly in many jurisdictions, if the "home office" is on an exterior wall and could meet the requirements of a bedroom, it's a bedroom no matter what you call it.

Not here. If it’s drawn as something else, and there is no closet, it can be something else.

If there is a built-in closet, it’s a bedroom, no matter what.

 

[acrwc10]

Not here. If it’s drawn as something else, and there is no closet, it can be something else.

If there is a built-in closet, it’s a bedroom, no matter what.

where in the code does it say a bedroom needs a closet? If there is an exterior wall that can fit an egress window and there is a door on the room, its a bedroom, closet or no closet.

 

[rc/retired]

where in the code does it say a bedroom needs a closet? If there is an exterior wall that can fit an egress window and there is a door on the room, its a bedroom, closet or no closet.

It doesn't.
Not always. The room has to be a minimum of 70 sq. ft.

Ron

 

[letgomywago]

It doesn't.
Not always. The room has to be a minimum of 70 sq. ft.

Ron

But just because it's not a bedroom doesn't mean it's not living space so it'd still require afci from 2014 nec on

 

[rc/retired]

But just because it's not a bedroom doesn't mean it's not living space so it'd still require afci from 2014 nec on

Absolutely

Ron

 

[kwired]

Point-of-use resets at existing kitchen MWBC's can replace 2-Pole breakers, until molested by remodel outlets .

Construction defect is the predictable incident, where 2-Pole xFCI breakers may trip up DIY & remodel outlets that molest the wiring.

Unless they remove the breakers, 2-Pole xFCI may help protect equipment from remodel monkeys.

When I mentioned 2 and three pole units I was referring to more recent additions/changes requiring GFCI protection required for receptacle outlets that are not 5-15 or 5-20 receptacles. Until they added the SPGFCI to the mix you were for the most part limited to two and three pole GFCI breakers to provide this protection if it was required. The SPGFCI's that existed before were mostly only recognized components and had to be incorporated into listed units and couldn't be used for general purpose use.

 

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

where in the code does it say a bedroom needs a closet? If there is an exterior wall that can fit an egress window and there is a door on the room, its a bedroom, closet or no closet.

It doesn’t.

Like I said, that is the determination for a bedroom HERE. If you submit a set of plans in my area, and there is a closet in a room, plan check will require it to meet the requirements of a bedroom. If there is no closet, and the designer labels it as something else, that works.

Just like the definitions that make it an ADU, a Junior ADU, or a “Detached Bedroom”.

I am a Building Contractor as well as an EC, so I work with my local building depts on this stuff quite a bit.

 

[kwired]

But just because it's not a bedroom doesn't mean it's not living space so it'd still require afci from 2014 nec on

That "or similar rooms or areas" sort of covers an office. Libraries and dens are included in the list which may also help justify what is similar areas.

If your "office" happens to share circuit(s) with other spaces that are most definitely on the list they will have AFCI protection anyway.

 

[ramsy]

The SPGFCI's that existed before were mostly only recognized components

Is this a SPGFCI ?

 

[kwired]

Is this a SPGFCI ?

IDK, likely not but maybe possible?

The ones I'm talking about from before NEC included SPGFCI usually had a CT that you physically ran the protected conductors through plus the associated electronics to process what was being measured by the CT. They usually had to power a relay or contactor to be able to interrupt load being protected that often was not an integral component of the GFCI device, which likely had something to do with them being a recognized and not a listed item, but they could work with more than 20 amp circuits like the GFCI receptacles, and back then GFCI breakers were only made up to 50 or 60 amps and there were no three pole versions.

 

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

Maybe “home office” isnt a thing. Someone had mentioned it the other day, maybe that’s why it was stuck in my head.

Not a big deal.

My only point in this thread was that it’s a little suspect that if the entire branch circuit must be protected, and not just the receptacle, like with GFCI, then it’s odd that every branch circuit would not be required to be protected.

Not that I think they should, I think the AFCI requirements should be removed.

 

[letgomywago]

Maybe “home office” isnt a thing. Someone had mentioned it the other day, maybe that’s why it was stuck in my head.

Not a big deal.

My only point in this thread was that it’s a little suspect that if the entire branch circuit must be protected, and not just the receptacle, like with GFCI, then it’s odd that every branch circuit would not be required to be protected.

Not that I think they should, I think the AFCI requirements should be removed.

Part of the issues I've heard is that who ever is in charge of the CMP for various parts of the code fight against them and others lean hard into them. Depending on who pays them in their normal jobs

 

[ramsy]

Maybe “home office” isnt a thing.

I prefer your first argument. You should double down on that F.U.D.

If there is no closet, and the designer labels it as something else, that works.

Just like the definitions that make it an ADU, a Junior ADU, or a “Detached Bedroom”.

I am a Building Contractor as well as an EC, so I work with my local building depts on this stuff quite a bit.

Getting it stamped as something else still works with enclaves on 2005 NEC or earlier, with AFCI's limited to bedrooms.