AFCI Protect. Question

[howardrichman]

I'll be wiring a new addition, and not sure if I can get out of installing a AFCI breaker if I tap one or two existing (non-afcI)circuits for several lighting and recepticle outlets in that new room if a new ckt is not needed. Is the exception for only adding outlets in existing rooms? I suppose a dedicated 120V A/C line single wall outlet would Also qualify for AFCI prot.; and does the wording in art. 210.12 exempt bathrooms, garages, unfinished basements and attics.Does the building Rehab code have any effect on these decisions?

Thank You
HR

 

[iwire]

There are no exceptions for AFCIs.

If it is new work in my opinion you must provide AFCI protection.

 

[K8MHZ]

There are no exceptions for AFCIs.

If it is new work in my opinion you must provide AFCI protection.

He didn't say what code cycle or if the room was a bedroom or not.

 

[howardrichman]

He didn't say what code cycle or if the room was a bedroom or not.

well; The room is sunroom-sitting room. It could be classified as a (similar) room to the rooms listed at 210.12. It doesn't just specify bedrooms. Wasn't afci in bdrms circuits of the 05 code? I just figured if a sep. ckt. wasn't necessery, I'de just tap an existing lightly loaded circuit, and no AFCI. Just asking.

HR

 

[Buck Parrish]

well; The room is sunroom-sitting room. It could be classified as a (similar) room to the rooms listed at 210.12. It doesn't just specify bedrooms. Wasn't afci in bdrms circuits of the 05 code? I just figured if a sep. ckt. wasn't necessery, I'de just tap an existing lightly loaded circuit, and no AFCI. Just asking.

HR

Your going to have to check with your local AHJ. In my area, we have to use afci if we install a new circuit from the panel.

 

[1793]

In my area I have been told by the Inspection Dept. that if AFCI would be required then an extension to existing circuit have to have to be AFCI protected.

 

[gndrod]

and.......Tamper Resistant Receptacles apply if inspected to 2008 NEC. rbj

 

[howardrichman]

In my area I have been told by the Inspection Dept. that if AFCI would be required then an extension to existing circuit have to have to be AFCI protected.

So far I know; In NJ; AFCI is exempt for any rewire of existing outlet, but would not be for a circuit extension in any manor.

HR

 

[growler]

I just figured if a sep. ckt. wasn't necessery, I'de just tap an existing lightly loaded circuit, and no AFCI. Just asking

I always look at this in a different way. If it's not to much trouble I would rather run a seperate circuit to any new work and keep my work segregated from any existing wiring and that way it's much easier to limit warranty and liablity. I cover what's installed and don't touch anything else.

 

[codewarrior321]

NJ

NJ

In New Jersey if you tap from existing circuits for your addition, You are not require to install AFCI protection as per UCC code. Ucc codes says if you are running new circuit feeds then you have to provide AFCI protection. If it is an old house with out dated service, you might need to replace whole service or install a small sub panel for the number of new circuits so you can install the AFCI`s.

 

[al hildenbrand]

So far I know; In NJ; AFCI is exempt for any rewire of existing outlet, but would not be for a circuit extension in any manor.

HR

The State of Minnesota recently reversed its policy that any extensions of an existing circuit, that included a new outlet of some kind, required the AFCI protection of the branch circuit.

Based upon Code Making Panel Statements about this very issue in the Report On Proposals for the 2011 NEC, released this Summer, the extensions of existing circuits have been allowed to be protected by the original Code approved installation. That is, no AFCI protection is required to be added.

I agree with others, above, that are suggesting checking with the AHJ for the place where the job is located. That person is the only one who will give you the definitive answer for that one job site.

 

[codewarrior321]

Ucc

Ucc

That is why in New Jersey they have the Uniform Construction Code, so that all state inspectors have to follow the imposed guide lines. They were to many different interpretations of the code. You would go to one town and pass and then go to another and not. Having an uniform code is a good thing. Althought we are force to install 2 ground rods too.

 

[George Stolz]

I always look at this in a different way. If it's not to much trouble I would rather run a seperate circuit to any new work and keep my work segregated from any existing wiring and that way it's much easier to limit warranty and liablity. I cover what's installed and don't touch anything else.

Ditto.

The State of Minnesota recently reversed its policy that any extensions of an existing circuit, that included a new outlet of some kind, required the AFCI protection of the branch circuit.

Based upon Code Making Panel Statements about this very issue in the Report On Proposals for the 2011 NEC, released this Summer, the extensions of existing circuits have been allowed to be protected by the original Code approved installation. That is, no AFCI protection is required to be added.

I agree with others, above, that are suggesting checking with the AHJ for the place where the job is located. That person is the only one who will give you the definitive answer for that one job site.

I wonder if our 581 post thread had anything to do with it?

 

[al hildenbrand]

I wonder if our 581 post thread had anything to do with it?

:grin:

They are "blaming" Annex H.

 

[howardrichman]

In New Jersey if you tap from existing circuits for your addition, You are not require to install AFCI protection as per UCC code. Ucc codes says if you are running new circuit feeds then you have to provide AFCI protection. If it is an old house with out dated service, you might need to replace whole service or install a small sub panel for the number of new circuits so you can install the AFCI`s.

If that existing circuit is feeding outlets for new construction sa. an addition; and not staying within the existing house; that might be the issue.
HR

 

[al hildenbrand]

That is why in New Jersey they have the Uniform Construction Code, so that all state inspectors have to follow the imposed guide lines.

The State of Minnesota Electrical Licensing and Inspection Department has a wonderfully uniform statewide enforcement as well, as they are a single AHJ.

My point, however, is that, in my opinion, we are in a period of changing perspective. The CMP Statement in the 2011 ROP said the AHJ had the sole discretion in the matter of applying 210.12(B) requirements to extensions on existing branch circuits. My State AHJ decided, based upon points in Annex H of the 2008 NEC, to not apply 210.12(B) to extensions.

 

[glene77is]

Your going to have to check with your local AHJ. In my area, we have to use afci if we install a new circuit from the panel.

Buck,
Several years back, I pulled a very short gig with a master EC, a renovation, and he had me simply check with the Code Enforcement in that little town. That local AHJ said that if he moved/removed/installed a new wall on a bedroom, then it required an AFCI, otherwise it was grandfathered. He interpreted it as a AFCI is required for 'new work'. Even though I rewired all of the old circuits, he considered it to be 'old work', no AFCI.

Check with the AHJ, after all, he is going to inspect the job.

 

[ishium 80439]

I recently did a job in Denver where there were 2 existing recessed lights. We relocated those 2 and installed an additional 3. We were required to install an AFCI CB for this circuit because we extended it.

I feel that was a bit much but reinforces the point of check w/ the AHJ.

 

[electricmanscott]

I always look at this in a different way. If it's not to much trouble I would rather run a seperate circuit to any new work and keep my work segregated from any existing wiring and that way it's much easier to limit warranty and liablity. I cover what's installed and don't touch anything else.

Me too. Of course I still have AFCI troubles but that may just be my lack of wiring skills.

 

[RICK NAPIER]

Just a note that currently NJ has adopted the 2008 NEC but the references in the rehab code are still 2005. As such the DCA says the rehab code still falls under 2005. But this should change any day now according to what I have heard.