AFCI requirement
- Thread starter gserve
- Start date
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jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: AFCI requirement
So how can we resolve this closet question.Is this another call for AHJ.
So how can we resolve this closet question.Is this another call for AHJ.
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Re: AFCI requirement
"Mike Can we assume that's from the NEC handbook?"
No.
"So how can we resolve this closet question.Is this another call for AHJ."
No. But would you run another circuit just for the closet lights?
Mike P.
"Mike Can we assume that's from the NEC handbook?"
No.
"So how can we resolve this closet question.Is this another call for AHJ."
No. But would you run another circuit just for the closet lights?
Mike P.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: AFCI requirement
Another circuit ? of course not.Have no problem with it being on afci.Also no problem if it wasn't and was on another non afci circuit.In most cases it is close to the bedroom circuit so let it ride on it.There are always reasons that one might put it on other lighting circuits.Just wanted to get this cleared up before a red tag
Another circuit ? of course not.Have no problem with it being on afci.Also no problem if it wasn't and was on another non afci circuit.In most cases it is close to the bedroom circuit so let it ride on it.There are always reasons that one might put it on other lighting circuits.Just wanted to get this cleared up before a red tag
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Re: AFCI requirement
"Just wanted to get this cleared up before a red tag"
Agreed.
If the switch for the closet light was "in" the bedroom--- red tag if not AFCI protected.
I would guess that most AHJ would deem the closet as "part" of the bedroom.
Just imagine if the code said "sleeping area"? If so I would have to AFCI my "the couch" dog house. LOL
Mike P.
Mike P.
"Just wanted to get this cleared up before a red tag"
Agreed.
If the switch for the closet light was "in" the bedroom--- red tag if not AFCI protected.
I would guess that most AHJ would deem the closet as "part" of the bedroom.
Just imagine if the code said "sleeping area"? If so I would have to AFCI my "the couch" dog house. LOL
Mike P.
Mike P.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: AFCI requirement
Mike
If the switch is in the bedroom it needs AFCI?
Is a switch considered an outlet? Not according to the NEC definitions. This would mean that if you have a 3-way in a bedroom for some back outside floods this whole circuit would have to be AFCI ed.
Mike
If the switch is in the bedroom it needs AFCI?
Is a switch considered an outlet? Not according to the NEC definitions. This would mean that if you have a 3-way in a bedroom for some back outside floods this whole circuit would have to be AFCI ed.
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: AFCI requirement
If there is a 'Master Bath', would you AFCI protect it? I think not as it is not required to be. The master bath is usually located off of the M. Bedroom, now we have a closet of any kind, off of the bedroom and it is a closet. Closets do not require AFCIs.
Pierre
If there is a 'Master Bath', would you AFCI protect it? I think not as it is not required to be. The master bath is usually located off of the M. Bedroom, now we have a closet of any kind, off of the bedroom and it is a closet. Closets do not require AFCIs.
Pierre
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
Re: AFCI requirement
Tonyi-why do you feel the switch is not an outlet?
A switch is installed at an outlet.
A receptacle is installed at an outlet.
See the article 100 definition of outlet.
Tonyi-why do you feel the switch is not an outlet?
A switch is installed at an outlet.
A receptacle is installed at an outlet.
See the article 100 definition of outlet.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: AFCI requirement
Current is not TAKEN at a switch
had it said available you would be right
[ December 24, 2003, 07:34 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
Current is not TAKEN at a switch
had it said available you would be right
[ December 24, 2003, 07:34 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Re: AFCI requirement
"If the switch is in the bedroom it needs AFCI?"
Yes.
"Is a switch considered an outlet?"
No. Just like a receptacle it is a device. An outlet is a "point", I think of it as a box.
"This would mean that if you have a 3-way in a bedroom for some back outside floods this whole circuit would have to be AFCI ed."
Yes.
210.12(B)"installed in" dewelling unit bedrooms.
Mike P.
"If the switch is in the bedroom it needs AFCI?"
Yes.
"Is a switch considered an outlet?"
No. Just like a receptacle it is a device. An outlet is a "point", I think of it as a box.
"This would mean that if you have a 3-way in a bedroom for some back outside floods this whole circuit would have to be AFCI ed."
Yes.
210.12(B)"installed in" dewelling unit bedrooms.
Mike P.
tonyi
Senior Member
Re: AFCI requirement
The definition of UE is basically that of something that transforms electricity into work (in the textbook physics sense). Ordinary switches don't perform work (if we ignore the trivial amount of heat generated by the contact's resistance), they just direct power to a point where work will be performed.
The utilization equipment is the light it controls and the point where the power is taken is the box that light is attached to.
What "utilization equipment" exists in an ordinary switch box?
The definition of UE is basically that of something that transforms electricity into work (in the textbook physics sense). Ordinary switches don't perform work (if we ignore the trivial amount of heat generated by the contact's resistance), they just direct power to a point where work will be performed.
The utilization equipment is the light it controls and the point where the power is taken is the box that light is attached to.
Re: AFCI requirement
If you look closely at that diagram, you will notice there is a receptcle IN the bedroom portion that is on the same circuit as the closet lights. That layout would require AFCI for the closet lights since the whole circuit must be AFCI protected.
Oops, I was refering to the reference to a diagram mentioned on page 1 of this discussion. Hey, its almost 1 AM and I'm at work. Oh, Joy!
[ December 26, 2003, 02:37 AM: Message edited by: big jim ]
If you look closely at that diagram, you will notice there is a receptcle IN the bedroom portion that is on the same circuit as the closet lights. That layout would require AFCI for the closet lights since the whole circuit must be AFCI protected.
Oops, I was refering to the reference to a diagram mentioned on page 1 of this discussion. Hey, its almost 1 AM and I'm at work. Oh, Joy!
[ December 26, 2003, 02:37 AM: Message edited by: big jim ]
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: AFCI requirement
Outlet - A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment.
(from the 2002 NEC)
A switch does not take current and utilize it, just as a conductor does not utilize current.
IMO the switch and associated conductors do not require AFCI protection unless feeding an 'outlet' in the bedroom. If you have conductors feeding an outside light installed on a wall common with the bedroom, there is no requirement that those conductors have AFCI protection, so as of now the intent is for usuage in the bedroom, not conductors in the wall/partition of the bedroom. This also excludes closets, bathrooms, and hallways that are common to the bedroom(s).
Pierre
Outlet - A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment.
(from the 2002 NEC)
A switch does not take current and utilize it, just as a conductor does not utilize current.
IMO the switch and associated conductors do not require AFCI protection unless feeding an 'outlet' in the bedroom. If you have conductors feeding an outside light installed on a wall common with the bedroom, there is no requirement that those conductors have AFCI protection, so as of now the intent is for usuage in the bedroom, not conductors in the wall/partition of the bedroom. This also excludes closets, bathrooms, and hallways that are common to the bedroom(s).
Pierre
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