afci`s in kitchen

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reel-break

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Can someone breif me on the new code requirements for residential as far as afci`s do you install them on small appliance and laundry cir. also_Or does the gfci reqirements cancel the afci requirements?I read 210.12 not really clear about bathrooms kitchen and laudry cir. Thanks in advance.
 
IMHO
Bathroom and laundry circuit do not require AFCI.
The only time one of the small appliance branch circuit requires AFCI is when it supplies the dining room or similar areas.
 
wirebender said:
IMHO

The only time one of the small appliance branch circuit requires AFCI is when it supplies the dining room or similar areas.
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I've been a bit out of the loop for a couple years and haven't heard of this. Is it 2008 code, or am I that much out of practice?

Can somebody gimme a code section for a dining room requiring AFCI?
 
physis said:
I've been a bit out of the loop for a couple years and haven't heard of this. Is it 2008 code, or am I that much out of practice?

Can somebody gimme a code section for a dining room requiring AFCI?
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NEC 2005 said:
210.12(B) Dwelling Unit Bedrooms.
All 120-volt, single phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets installed in dwelling unit bedrooms shall be protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter, combination type installed to provide protection of the branch circuit.
Branch/feeder AFCIs shall be permitted to be used to meet the requirements of 210.12(B) until January 1, 2008.
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NEC 2008 said:
210.12(B) Dwelling Units.
All 120-volt, single phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets installed in dwelling unit family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, or similar rooms or areas shall be protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter, combination-type, installed to provide protection of the branch circuit.
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See the change?
 
That splains it Celtic.

Instead of waiting until these things actully work, you know, as laid out in 90.1(A), we'll have to continue protecting, I guess, the entire universe by this technology that's not only unproven but has been proven to be much less than, for lack of a better term, inadequite for it's proposed function.

Not that I don't like the idea, but I do not like the gizmo and it being forced through code.

Edit: Why not just make electricity noncompliant?
 
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480sparky said:
If the '05 is what's enforced in your area, then wire to the '05.
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I know that, I just rather have somewhat of a hatred toward these devolpment stage products being forced upon the public at large. I can't help but think there's something extra fishy behind the NEC being used as a sales tool for these things. This is the only, single, part of the NEC that seems somehow corupt to me, but it does.
 
physis said:
I know that, I just rather have somewhat of a hatred toward these devolpment stage products being forced upon the public at large. I can't help but think there's something extra fishy behind the NEC being used as a sales tool for these things. This is the only, single, part of the NEC that seems somehow corupt to me, but it does.
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All you need to do is secure a copy of the ROP (the NFPA will send you a free copy) and see who makes the submittal. It's an eye-opener for sure.
 
480sparky said:
All you need to do is secure a copy of the ROP (the NFPA will send you a free copy) and see who makes the submittal. It's an eye-opener for sure.
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I've been watching this whole thing develope for some years now. Mike Holt lit up the CMP's pretty darn good a couple three years ago, and then climbed right on board with a rather anticlimatic "OK" and I've never heard a word again from anybody in opposition.

I wish I could use the NEC to sell junk.
 
How bout some manufacturer liabilty associated with product failure or inability to function as promised? Cause I know more civil attorneys will ensure safer electrical installations.
 
AFCI's

AFCI's

Okay, quiz questions on arc fault. The 2008 code also states that arc fault can be a receptacle at the beginning of the receptacle circuit, but that the run from the panel to the arc fault receptacle has to be AC cable. Maybe I didn't dig deep enough but what is the difference between MC cable and AC cable brand new? And does the current MC cable conform to the AC cable requirements the 2008 code refers too? Wish I was in NJ instead of Indiana!! Sorry, if this sounds like a stupid question but the conversion from all industrial process automation to multidwelling unit code is a bear.
 
rwood3444 said:
Okay, quiz questions on arc fault. The 2008 code also states that arc fault can be a receptacle at the beginning of the receptacle circuit, but that the run from the panel to the arc fault receptacle has to be AC cable. Maybe I didn't dig deep enough but what is the difference between MC cable and AC cable brand new?
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AC armor is suitable as an EGC. MC is not. 250.118

FWIW, I don't think there are any combination AFCI receptacles on the market.



And does the current MC cable conform to the AC cable requirements the 2008 code refers too?
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No
Wish I was in NJ instead of Indiana!! Sorry, if this sounds like a stupid question but the conversion from all industrial process automation to multidwelling unit code is a bear.
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I'll bet. :smile:
 
This from NEMA is handy ,.. http://www.afcisafety.org/codes.html

FirstFloorPlan.jpg


SecondFloorPlan.jpg
 
Geez, next code cycle everything in the world will have to be AFCI'd. Except for the power company side, cause they don't have to put up with CMP 2.
 
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