AFCI this?

[electricmanscott]

Re: AFCI this?

Here is what the inspector thinks about this. No need for heater to be on afci circuit. No need for smoke detectors on afci circuit. That's the real answer in this particular case I guess. Looks like the NEC should define "Outlet" better.

 

[ryan_618]

Re: AFCI this?

I think the definition is adeqeute, personally. Your inspector may want to think of an answer to give the judge and jury, with the recent trend of potential AFCI lawsuits.

In fact...so should the installer...the installer is the one that will really get hit hard should there ever be an issue.

EDIT: Scott...I don't mean that personally, just generally. No offense

[ October 29, 2003, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: ryan_618 ]

 

[tonyi]

Re: AFCI this?

Originally posted by roger:
..With that determinined, it would simply be an outlet

I agree.

I don't necessarily agree with putting the outside lights on a bedroom circuit though particularly if there's a whole string of them around the house. Even more particularly if its only a 15A BR branch. Too much chance of overload trips depending on what size lamps are used if someone plugs in a heater or room A/C.

A well lit place with 10 75W floods is 750W - that's a pretty high starting point for a BR branch with nothing else plugged in yet. Even a smallish electric heater pushes you over the edge.

 

[izak]

Re: AFCI this?

My understanding is that an OUTLET is ANY point at which you connect ANY DEVICE in a branch circuit. Lights, Receptacles, smokes, whatever...
I have also been told that ANYTHING in a Dwelling Bedroom MUST be AFCI protected.

doesnt seem to be much room for discussion...

 

[roger]

Re: AFCI this?

Izak,

I have also been told that ANYTHING in a Dwelling Bedroom MUST be AFCI protected.

it depends on what code cycle you are under 99 or 02. (in any cycle before, AFCI's don't exist)

Roger

 

[tonyi]

Re: AFCI this?

Originally posted by izak:

I have also been told that ANYTHING in a Dwelling Bedroom MUST be AFCI protected.

Only the 15/20A 120V branches require AFCI.

30A 120V twistlock - no.
30/50A 220V - no.
etc

 

[pierre]

Re: AFCI this?

Warning to installers:
Ryan's post as to potential lawsuits is the post that should be heeded. If an installer does not look out for him/herself, no one else will. The Inspector does not sit in court with you, and if you have not had the experience, you will find out it is never a please one.

An outlet is defined, utilization equipment is defined, Arc Fault detection is laid out, why does it seem that the Arc Fault situation is so hard? 210.12 is not hard to follow, even with the local jurisdiction amendments in different areas.

The NFPA has stuck by it's decision to keep smoke detectors on the protected circuit, because the units are to have battery backup and if those conductors are not protected, they become the weak link, I happen to agree with that decision.
Remember that the code is the minimum necessary to 'PASS AN INSPECTION' and if you were to go to court, they will exploit that to the fullest to make you look irresponsible. Believe me, I have been an 'expert' witness several times and I have seen how the attorneys can twist the situation if you do not know how to respond. ..And if you do not know the code/theory well they will eat you alive.

My advice, again it is only advice is. If you are not required to install Arc Fault devices, in your proposal to the customer, make a note, something like this.
Allowance to install Arc Fault breakers (life safety devices) to bedrooms and possibly any 120 volt 15 and/or 20 amp circuits for circuit protection as per 210.12. The additional cost per circuit is $....... .

This note can and will make the decision fall into the customer's hands, and will relieve the installer from the responsibility of liability if an Arc Fault should happen to occur.

This advice has come from an attorney who actually looks to defend contractors.
Remember this is my advice and I would recommend that you speak to your attorney before you install this in any of your contracts.

Good Luck

Pierre