AFCI thread #4,347,291

Status
Not open for further replies.
peter d

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
Got a call to troubleshoot tripping AFCI device in a brand new condo unit we finished wiring a few months ago. I get there and it's the kitchen circuit which is on a Homeline dual function breaker. (We use Homeline exclusively unless it's a panel change and we can reuse existing breakers.) Customer shows me the offending brand new Keurig coffee maker which does in fact trip the AFCI/GFCI breaker after a quick demonstration. I want to rule out nuisance tripping so I then take the coffee maker and plug it into the nearby bathroom GFCI receptacle. I run it a few times and it does not trip the GFCI receptacle, so at least I can rule out the GFCI portion of the breaker.

At this point I make the decision to pull the breakers and install new ones. The coffee maker did not trip the replacement breakers after running it through several cycles, so unfortunately we have to eat this service call because it was not a defective appliance.

I'm convinced more than ever that the AFCI is the most evil thing to ever happen to the electrical trade. :rant::rant::rant:
 
peter d said:
Got a call to troubleshoot tripping AFCI device in a brand new condo unit we finished wiring a few months ago. I get there and it's the kitchen circuit which is on a Homeline dual function breaker. (We use Homeline exclusively unless it's a panel change and we can reuse existing breakers.) Customer shows me the offending brand new Keurig coffee maker which does in fact trip the AFCI/GFCI breaker after a quick demonstration. I want to rule out nuisance tripping so I then take the coffee maker and plug it into the nearby bathroom GFCI receptacle. I run it a few times and it does not trip the GFCI receptacle, so at least I can rule out the GFCI portion of the breaker.

At this point I make the decision to pull the breakers and install new ones. The coffee maker did not trip the replacement breakers after running it through several cycles, so unfortunately we have to eat this service call because it was not a defective appliance.

I'm convinced more than ever that the AFCI is the most evil thing to ever happen to the electrical trade. :rant::rant::rant:
Click to expand...
I agree. There maybe is good intent and even good ideas when it comes to preventing fires that these supposedly protect us from. The way it all came about still left the EC in the hardest position - required to install something that doesn't always work and most likely making them eat some cost in the process of resolving problems with them.

Sure you get a few guys that tell how Square D sent them some replacements - but still no reimbursement for all their work in solving the problem that they are not even responsible for.
 
kwired said:
I agree. There maybe is good intent and even good ideas when it comes to preventing fires that these supposedly protect us from. The way it all came about still left the EC in the hardest position - required to install something that doesn't always work and most likely making them eat some cost in the process of resolving problems with them.

Sure you get a few guys that tell how Square D sent them some replacements - but still no reimbursement for all their work in solving the problem that they are not even responsible for.
Click to expand...

It's outrageous that these things have been around for 15+ years and they are still a very imperfect technology that even the manufacturers will indirectly admit they have constantly updated and tinkered with.

These breakers I pulled will be sent back to the distributor but we still lost 1.5 hours of troubleshooting and travel time. :rant:
 
peter d said:
Got a call to troubleshoot tripping AFCI device in a brand new condo unit we finished wiring a few months ago. I get there and it's the kitchen circuit which is on a Homeline dual function breaker. (We use Homeline exclusively unless it's a panel change and we can reuse existing breakers.) Customer shows me the offending brand new Keurig coffee maker which does in fact trip the AFCI/GFCI breaker after a quick demonstration. I want to rule out nuisance tripping so I then take the coffee maker and plug it into the nearby bathroom GFCI receptacle. I run it a few times and it does not trip the GFCI receptacle, so at least I can rule out the GFCI portion of the breaker.

At this point I make the decision to pull the breakers and install new ones. The coffee maker did not trip the replacement breakers after running it through several cycles, so unfortunately we have to eat this service call because it was not a defective appliance.

I'm convinced more than ever that the AFCI is the most evil thing to ever happen to the electrical trade. :rant::rant::rant:
Click to expand...
Not again - we already had 15 pages on that before the thread was closed.
 
And who does the manufacturer think will pay for this. Us code compliant sparkies who else.
What should happen is that mfg should set up a fund we can draw from if they want to continue this nuisance:rant: device.
 
peter d said:
I'm aware of that, but the problems with AFCI's persist to this very day.. We are 15+ years into this disaster with no sign of relief. This is absolutely criminal in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Opinion noted and that's fine.
My point is that all of that has been previously aired, disputed acrimoniously, the thread closed, and a user banned.
Done and dusted. Dead in the water. Why resurrect it?
 
Besoeker said:
Opinion noted and that's fine.
My point is that all of that has been previously aired, disputed acrimoniously, the thread closed, and a user banned.
Done and dusted. Dead in the water. Why resurrect it?
Click to expand...

Because contractors are still dealing with headaches from unknown tripping from these devices, and still losing money as a result.
 
I think it is time to for this requirement to be re evaluated.
Its cost me plenty. Both in money and unhappy customers.
 
Change them out to regular breakers after inspection.. problem solved

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
Troubleshooting afci Breakers usually goes like this for us:

1) get to residence, find out appliance X does not work on one of several afci circuits.

2) plug appliance into other afci circuits, it works fine.

3) replace afci breaker with one with a different color label.

The best sound in the world is an afci breaker hitting the bottom of a steel dumpster
 
Yes afci technology will cost you as an EC, either in time or credibility, there's been no way around it.

One can, if one wishes , extend the afci diagnostics via manufacturers via their own toolage>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM9_N5exFPg

Then there are those who would try and disprove and dismiss them (this was in a '14 rop)>

https://youtu.be/iLmC5quELrE

Further would be concern for that which is purely technical , because there have been so many conflicting manufacturers articles in our trade rags, only one has remained beyond reproach by them, and subsequently boycotted by ALL trade rags (which usually grace my woodstove)

http://www.combinationafci.com/resources/doc_ieee_combination_afci.pdf

I would encourage the proliferation of this ^^^

~RJ~
 
We all have probably read the 2012 IEEE article and there is good info in there. In the 6 years since 2012, has anything else of substance been written about improvements and/or changes in the AFCI devices??
 
JFletcher said:
Troubleshooting afci Breakers usually goes like this for us:

1) get to residence, find out appliance X does not work on one of several afci circuits.

2) plug appliance into other afci circuits, it works fine.

3) replace afci breaker with one with a different color label.

The best sound in the world is an afci breaker hitting the bottom of a steel dumpster
Click to expand...

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

The sound of them being smashed with a sledge is pretty satisfying too.
 
czars said:
We all have probably read the 2012 IEEE article and there is good info in there. In the 6 years since 2012, has anything else of substance been written about improvements and/or changes in the AFCI devices??
Click to expand...

Nothing along the lines of technical improvements , mostly manufacturers nefarious stats ,along with more applicable fits as they see them

~RJ~
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top