AFCI
- Thread starter yacik_1
- Start date
- Status
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: AFCI
Yes you can. There is no code section that says you can, because the code doesn't work that way. If the code is silent on an issue, it is permitted. If the code says you can't do something, you can't.
Yes you can. There is no code section that says you can, because the code doesn't work that way. If the code is silent on an issue, it is permitted. If the code says you can't do something, you can't.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: AFCI
Yes assuming the other outlet is a general purpose outlet.You can include halls ,living room and such on the afci circuit.Basically nothing has changed that was allowed before this ruling on afci.If you so want you could put everything on afci but only bedrooms are required.
[ February 04, 2006, 03:54 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
Yes assuming the other outlet is a general purpose outlet.You can include halls ,living room and such on the afci circuit.Basically nothing has changed that was allowed before this ruling on afci.If you so want you could put everything on afci but only bedrooms are required.
[ February 04, 2006, 03:54 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
mdshunk
Senior Member
- Location
- Right here.
Re: AFCI
Sure you may. The code does not address that, therefore you can. The mandate is to AFCI protect all 120V outlets. A junction box, or even connections of another circuit in a receptacle's device box, are not an outlet. Obviously, beware of box fill.
Sure you may. The code does not address that, therefore you can. The mandate is to AFCI protect all 120V outlets. A junction box, or even connections of another circuit in a receptacle's device box, are not an outlet. Obviously, beware of box fill.
Re: AFCI
Does anyone know what happens when a gfci is used on an afci protected circuit? I haven't run into it yet but have no doubt that I will. I figure it will be one of those "homeowner" things.
The other possibility is that the NEC or AHJ will sooner or later expand AFCI protection to bathrooms, garages, outdoor receptacles, etc.
Does anyone know what happens when a gfci is used on an afci protected circuit? I haven't run into it yet but have no doubt that I will. I figure it will be one of those "homeowner" things.
The other possibility is that the NEC or AHJ will sooner or later expand AFCI protection to bathrooms, garages, outdoor receptacles, etc.
stud696981
Senior Member
Re: AFCI
A GFCI outlet will work fine on an AFCI circuit.
A GFCI outlet will work fine on an AFCI circuit.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: AFCI
What does one of those "homeowner" things mean?
Nothing will happen other than the fact that the gfci will be on an afci protected circuit.
What does one of those "homeowner" things mean?
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2023
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
Re: AFCI
I am curious about a third aspect of this.
Imagine a two-sided fireplace, between the master bedroom and master bathroom. There is an receptacle inside the fireplace for a transformer for the LV ignition 3-way switches in each room. The fireplace is at the foot of the tub.
1. Is AFCI protection required?
2. Is GFCI protection required?
Then.
3. Is AFCI protection a good idea?
4. Is GFCI protection a good idea?
I am curious about a third aspect of this.
Imagine a two-sided fireplace, between the master bedroom and master bathroom. There is an receptacle inside the fireplace for a transformer for the LV ignition 3-way switches in each room. The fireplace is at the foot of the tub.
1. Is AFCI protection required?
2. Is GFCI protection required?
Then.
3. Is AFCI protection a good idea?
4. Is GFCI protection a good idea?
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: AFCI
George the fireplaces I have seen with ignighters and blowers are hard wired.In that case as debated here before then no afci is required.Even if there were a receptacle it would be in the area within the wall and therefore not in either the bedroom or the bathroom.
George the fireplaces I have seen with ignighters and blowers are hard wired.In that case as debated here before then no afci is required.Even if there were a receptacle it would be in the area within the wall and therefore not in either the bedroom or the bathroom.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: AFCI
The AFCI requirement is for outlets, not receptacles. The fireplace is served by an outlet, if that outlet is in the bedroom it must have AFCI protection.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: AFCI
Good god here we go.
Good god here we go.
Re: AFCI
Electricmanscott,
Homeowner thing - an installation that does not violate code or the AHJ, but is not required by the code or AHJ.
Additionally, while legal, an install that is overkill, impractical, expensive, and/or unnecessary.
Typically, a H/O requires these things because they "know" what the "laws" are about "electric stuff" and will not believe that we who make our living at electrical work (and have the licenses, training, and good references to prove that we do good, safe work) know better than they do.
We have all had one of these customers. The one that is happy as a lark when the job is done, but three months later start calling us to angrily demand that we "fix what we did wrong." The safe, legal, unnecessary install that they had us do is acting exactly like we told them it would, but at the time they were sure we were wrong and they were right.
Don't get me wrong. I dearly love dealing with most of my clients. They are fine people, who don't mind paying for a well done job and appreciate the professionals from all trades that work hard to take care of them.
I do, however, hold a certain contempt for those few who insist on doubting the ability and honesty of skilled professionals. Those same people also seem to believe that they should get their work for free.
Electricmanscott,
Homeowner thing - an installation that does not violate code or the AHJ, but is not required by the code or AHJ.
Additionally, while legal, an install that is overkill, impractical, expensive, and/or unnecessary.
Typically, a H/O requires these things because they "know" what the "laws" are about "electric stuff" and will not believe that we who make our living at electrical work (and have the licenses, training, and good references to prove that we do good, safe work) know better than they do.
We have all had one of these customers. The one that is happy as a lark when the job is done, but three months later start calling us to angrily demand that we "fix what we did wrong." The safe, legal, unnecessary install that they had us do is acting exactly like we told them it would, but at the time they were sure we were wrong and they were right.
Don't get me wrong. I dearly love dealing with most of my clients. They are fine people, who don't mind paying for a well done job and appreciate the professionals from all trades that work hard to take care of them.
I do, however, hold a certain contempt for those few who insist on doubting the ability and honesty of skilled professionals. Those same people also seem to believe that they should get their work for free.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: AFCI
The more things change the more they stay the same.Originally posted by electricmanscott:
Good god here we go.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: AFCI
Matt I was just looking to see where you were going. It seems to me that you are doubting the use of an afci and gfci on the same circuit. The impression I get from you is that it would be a homeowner that would come up something like this.
There are several scenarios that could come up where this would be a good solution. There is no reason not to do this, although there are guys here that think it should not be done.
Homeowners can be a pain. It is usually the ones who have a job title that starts with an E and ends with an R and has nginee in the middle.
Matt I was just looking to see where you were going. It seems to me that you are doubting the use of an afci and gfci on the same circuit. The impression I get from you is that it would be a homeowner that would come up something like this.
There are several scenarios that could come up where this would be a good solution. There is no reason not to do this, although there are guys here that think it should not be done.
Homeowners can be a pain. It is usually the ones who have a job title that starts with an E and ends with an R and has nginee in the middle.
ramdiesel3500
Senior Member
- Location
- Bloomington IN
Re: AFCI
electricmanscott
electricmanscott
I represent that statement!!!
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: AFCI
And I resemble that remark!
And I resemble that remark!
throttlebody
Senior Member
- Location
- Martinsburg, WV
Re: AFCI
It is no different than an exhaust vent in the bathroom needing GFCI protection, unless the blower is plugged in from outside of the assembly.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: AFCI
If that fan is in the bedroom it has an outlet that must be AFCI protected.
The GFCI requirement in bathrooms only applies to receptacle outlets.
The bedroom AFCI requirement applies to all outlets.
This is why smoke detectors, light fixtures, receptacle outlets, 120 volt 20 amp baseboard heaters and 15 or 20 amp 120 volt fireplaces located in bedrooms all require AFCI protection.
Look up the definition of 'outlet' in article 100 and you will find that an outlet is any place that the premises wiring supplies utilization equipment.
[ February 13, 2006, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
Yes it is different.
If that fan is in the bedroom it has an outlet that must be AFCI protected.
The GFCI requirement in bathrooms only applies to receptacle outlets.
The bedroom AFCI requirement applies to all outlets.
This is why smoke detectors, light fixtures, receptacle outlets, 120 volt 20 amp baseboard heaters and 15 or 20 amp 120 volt fireplaces located in bedrooms all require AFCI protection.
Look up the definition of 'outlet' in article 100 and you will find that an outlet is any place that the premises wiring supplies utilization equipment.
[ February 13, 2006, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
Re: AFCI
:roll:
You forgot lighted switches.Originally posted by iwire:
This is why smoke detectors, light fixtures, receptacle outlets, 120 volt 20 amp baseboard heaters and 15 or 20 amp 120 volt fireplaces located in bedrooms all require AFCI protection.
Look up the definition of 'outlet' in article 100 and you will find that an outlet is any place that the premises wiring supplies utilization equipment.
:roll:- Status