AFCI

[BUYER246]

I was repairing a bunch of handyman splices in a customer's attic today and will be back tomorrow. I really need to re-pull a couple home runs from the panel up to the attic to eliminate some of the splices and route the romex where it is will be better protected. Will I need to change the breakers to AFCI's since I am just re-feeding existing circuits and not adding anything new?

 

[cadpoint]

What code is your county under? Someone elsewhere made the statement that they where under 2011
in their county.

Tx is going to adopt 2017, 9/17...

NEC 2011 210.12, Yes, required protection. There is an exception for MC, or AC where not required.

 

[JFletcher]

I was repairing a bunch of handyman splices in a customer's attic today and will be back tomorrow. I really need to re-pull a couple home runs from the panel up to the attic to eliminate some of the splices and route the romex where it is will be better protected. Will I need to change the breakers to AFCI's since I am just re-feeding existing circuits and not adding anything new?

When you write "handyman splice", are you referring to a splice made without a box? If so, why not box it? I dunno if the 14 code would require AFCI for that (new home runs to existing circuits), however a few junction boxes in the attic are no biggie if done correctly. Repulling home runs to avoid attic splices is often a lot of labor and money for no appreciable benefit.

 

[Coppersmith]

I call this one "burning man". Found it in a church owned residence.

 

[user 100]

What code is your county under? Someone elsewhere made the statement that they where under 2011
in their county.

Tx is going to adopt 2017, 9/17...

NEC 2011 210.12, Yes, required protection. There is an exception for MC, or AC where not required.

In Lubbock, they are still under the 2011.

I was repairing a bunch of handyman splices in a customer's attic today and will be back tomorrow. I really need to re-pull a couple home runs from the panel up to the attic to eliminate some of the splices and route the romex where it is will be better protected. Will I need to change the breakers to AFCI's since I am just re-feeding existing circuits and not adding anything new?

Unfortunately you are just a code cycle short of the 6 ft exception to 210.12(B) for avoiding afci that is present in the 2014...

But, if you are just repairing the splices w/out adding any new wire, its imo a stretch to say the circuit is being modified or extended. As cadpoint said above,you do the refeed/pull new HRs, afci would be needed per the 2011.

Can you explain further about being "better protected"?

 

[BUYER246]

JFletcher: As USER100 stated we are still under 2011. This scenario is much like the "burning man" splice pictured above. Splices are cut into the middle of the romex with no wire nuts. They are just wrapped around the hot/neutral and then taped up. Also the wire does not have any slack so I would be replacing multiple sections at a time.

Can you explain further about being "better protected"?

cadpoint: These circuits are run over the ceiling joists down the walk path of a very low attic and the outer loom is starting to wear off the romex (1960's 12/2 romex) from people crawling through the attic.

 

[user 100]

JFletcher: As USER100 stated we are still under 2011. This scenario is much like the "burning man" splice pictured above. Splices are cut into the middle of the romex with no wire nuts. They are just wrapped around the hot/neutral and then taped up. Also the wire does not have any slack so I would be replacing multiple sections at a time.


cadpoint: These circuits are run over the ceiling joists down the walk path of a very low attic and the outer loom is starting to wear off the romex (1960's 12/2 romex) from people crawling through the attic.

You might could get away with using the Ideal spliceline connectors and boxing those to avoid afci , then put down running boards to protect old nm, but doing something like that is going to depend on what you decide if thats worth the trouble vs. your original plan of refeed/possibility of having do afci.

 

[kwired]

If the scenario is much like the "burning man", what does the other end of the cables in question look like?

I don't see this as being much different then deciding to just rip out 1930's or 40's wiring and start over. Once you decide to start over isn't it all new? You may also need TR recepacles or even GFCI protection on some items.

 

[user 100]

If the scenario is much like the "burning man", what does the other end of the cables in question look like?

I don't see this as being much different then deciding to just rip out 1930's or 40's wiring and start over. Once you decide to start over isn't it all new? You may also need TR recepacles or even GFCI protection on some items.

A good point here- if hackery exists here, then there is a better than even chance it lurks elsewhere in spots not yet seen........

 

[BUYER246]

I appreciate the replies and advice. I plan to investigate the other end of the splices as well and will also explain the situation to the customer and advise them having AFCI's on those circuits will be the prudent thing to do.

 

[kwired]

I appreciate the replies and advice. I plan to investigate the other end of the splices as well and will also explain the situation to the customer and advise them having AFCI's on those circuits will be the prudent thing to do.

If it is getting an inspection, it is more likely the only thing to do. Outside of that, it is up to you to determine if you think you should vary from the code.

I will admit I omit AFCI at times, and I don't care to steer the discussion into why I might do that, and do understand I may be taking on some potential liability when doing this, but I never do so when it will get inspected.

I have driven faster then the speed limit before as well.