AFCI's in the news in Indiana

[peter d]

With the advent of inexpensive cut and glue CPVC (Blazemaster I think it's called?) for sprinklers, there is really no excuse not to have them installed.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

There comes a time where thinning the herd via attrition of stupidity is not necessarily a bad thing. I haven't paid attention to the statistics on AFCIs, but certainly GFCIs have gone way overboard. The primary purpose of a GFCI is to protect people from their own stupidity, which is fine, but it has now gone to the extreme in the 2008 cycle. What justification can there be for requiring a GFI on a dedicated outlet 10 feet off the ground for a garage door opener?

 

[kbsparky]

Personally, I have a big problem with any Code requirement that was enacted due to the efforts of manufacturers' lobbyists. Remember that this stuff was in the Code book even before they were available on the market!!

IT has become more political minded than safety for some parts of the code making these days.

Get the politics out of the Code, and maybe I'll embrace it more.

 

[JWCELECTRIC]

Personally, I have a big problem with any Code requirement that was enacted due to the efforts of manufacturers' lobbyists. Remember that this stuff was in the Code book even before they were available on the market!!

IT has become more political minded than safety for some parts of the code making these days.

Get the politics out of the Code, and maybe I'll embrace it more.

Makes you wonder if some of the folks writing the NEC code are also on the manufacturer's Board of Directors or own a lot of stock in the company. Similar to the FDA where they get funding from the Biotech and other companies, it would be great research if one were to do it?

 

[electricguy61]

Statistics prove that to be untrue.

Beyond that, lets say there is a fire and there are no sprinklers to stop it. What is the FD going to use to put the fire out when they get on scene. Are they going to do less damage trying to put out a fire that has now had a chance to progress?




Home fire sprinklers

There's an upgrade I can support! Me thinks it will be awhile though (at least in single family homes).

 

[growler]

Personally, I have a big problem with any Code requirement that was enacted due to the efforts of manufacturers' lobbyists. Remember that this stuff was in the Code book even before they were available on the market!!

Normally I would feel the same way but I'm thinking of calling some of these manufacturers and see if they can use some of that lobbyist muscle to get some of that stimulus money set aside to retrofit older homes with AFCIs. I'm not really joking.:smile:

If the government is just going to throw the money away they may as well pay have some of the older homes fire protected ( more money for the manufacturers and more money for us). Big win for everyone except for the tax payers.

I think we should try to drum up some support for the goverment paying to retrofit older homes with AFCI protection at the local level all across the country.

If they want to throw in a sprinkler system that fine with me, there's enough pork for everyone.

 

[ohm]

Statistics prove that to be untrue.

Beyond that, lets say there is a fire and there are no sprinklers to stop it. What is the FD going to use to put the fire out when they get on scene. Are they going to do less damage trying to put out a fire that has now had a chance to progress?




Home fire sprinklers

Appreciate the stats Bob. I was against all the 08 Changes AT THIS TIME for economic reasons.

But thats water under the bridge. Have any stats been compiled on AFCI fires vs non-AFCI yet?

How about all the other 08 changes?

 

[ohm]

There comes a time where thinning the herd via attrition of stupidity is not necessarily a bad thing. I haven't paid attention to the statistics on AFCIs, but certainly GFCIs have gone way overboard. The primary purpose of a GFCI is to protect people from their own stupidity, which is fine, but it has now gone to the extreme in the 2008 cycle. What justification can there be for requiring a GFI on a dedicated outlet 10 feet off the ground for a garage door opener?

True Rick. Now that we have TR can the parents forget about being parents?

Now that we have to put GFCI's on the freezers and refrig. in the basement who pays for the spoiled food when a storm kicks them out...the EC?

 

[electricmanscott]

Now that we have TR can the parents forget about being parents?

You must not have kids.

 

[JohnJ0906]

There's an upgrade I can support! Me thinks it will be awhile though (at least in single family homes).

It was written into the 2006 Life Safety Code, but, although jurisdictions around here have adopted it, splrinklers in SFDs aren't being installed.

 

[PetrosA]

I can think of one major barrier to sprinkler systems is many US homes - well pumps. In my area the vast majority of homes have their own wells. Upgrading a well system to provide the pressure and volume required for a sprinkler system is probably so cost prohibitive that no authority in it's right mind would try to require it. Now, if someone came up with a flat PVC tank that could be attic mounted to gravity feed a sprinkler system, maybe it would have a chance.

I'll state my opinion on GFI and AFCI once again just for the record - I'm for a split bus panel with GFI/AFCI mains covering lighting, recepts. and appliances separately. Three expensive breakers instead of 40.

 

[nakulak]

agree to point relative to wells. on the point of water damage/property damage, though, imo the whole point of the sprinklers is to give the occupants an additional 5 to 15 minutes to escape and save lives. protecting the property is not the main consideration, if its a consideration at all.

 

[ohm]

You must not have kids.

Two (one an electrician). IMO we can't engineer our way out of being parents.

The paperclip they try to stuff in the outlet is still a choking hazard.

The ideas in the 08 Code may be good but the timing was terrible.

 

[tkb]

Only one or two sprinkler heads were activated in 81% of the fires with wet pipe sprinkler systems operating and in 56% of the fires with dry pipe systems operating.

You mean thay all don't go off at once. Like in the movies. :grin::grin:

 

[iaov]

Two (one an electrician). IMO we can't engineer our way out of being parents.

The paperclip they try to stuff in the outlet is still a choking hazard.

The ideas in the 08 Code may be good but the timing was terrible.

Very well put!!:smile: