AHJ seems to be making up his own code rules

[difowler44]

We installed a 600amp meter rack (three panel boxes and a meterbase supported by 3" posts and unistrut). I tried to upload a picture, but it said the file is too large for the server to process. The AHJ failed it on the inspection for 3 reasons. He wanted me to take off the inner lids for the 3ea outdoor panel boxes so he could view the service wires. It is just one screw for each panel box that is holding the inner lid in place. I guess he didn't have a screw driver.

He also said that I couldn't run the grounding wires from one panel box ground bar to another, cutting the wires and then terminating them at each panel box, and then continuing with a new grounding wire to the next panel box. He wanted me to loop the grounding wire through the grounding lugs on each panel box without cutting the wire.

He also said that I needed 2ea grounding rods (one on each end of the meter rack) instead of just one. I know that you need a ufer ground, and a ground rod at the house, but this is a meter rack that is not attached to the house. It is in a field several yards away from the house.

I believe all of these items aren't necessary according to the code book. Am I correct?

 

[tom baker]

1. Screwdriver and panel covers, that’s not a code issue, perhaps a local policy/safety rule
2. For the ground wire, is this a GEC, or EGC? Ground is a poor term to use, look up definition of ground. Once you know what it is, they you will know what rules to apply.
3. For your ground rods, unless you prove resistance of one is 25 ohms or less, you will need 2. Or as has been said, drive 2 and go home.

 

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

I believe he is correct on all three.

I always open all boxes, panels, junction boxes, everything. Not the inspectors job to open things up.

GECs are required to be continuous. I’ll have to look up the Code Article. It’s not on the tip of my brain.

And if you do not have a ufer, which it sounds like you don’t, then you do in fact need two ground rods.

 

[difowler44]

2. For the ground wire, is this a GEC, or EGC? Ground is a poor term to use, look up definition of ground. Once you know what it is, they you will know what rules to apply.
Yes. My use of the correct terminology isn't what it should be on several electrical subjects. I am refering to the grounding wire begins at the ground electrode and then continues (without splice I guess) and connects one panel box to another. GEC & ECG? Or would bonding conductor or jumper be the correct term?

 

[Carultch]

2. For the ground wire, is this a GEC, or EGC? Ground is a poor term to use, look up definition of ground. Once you know what it is, they you will know what rules to apply.

Yes. My use of the correct terminology isn't what it should be on several electrical subjects. I am refering to the grounding wire begins at the ground electrode and then continues (without splice I guess) and connects one panel box to another. GEC & ECG? Or would bonding conductor or jumper be the correct term?

The GEC (grounding electrode conductor) connects a grounding electrode to your electrical equipment. Its purpose is to establish the fact that every conductor that is grounded or grounding, is at the same electric potential (i.e. voltage) as the surrounding soil.

The EGC (equipment grounding conductor) is a wire that should really be called an EBC for equipment bonding conductor, but we are stuck with the term EGC for historical reasons. It is the wire that is load-side of a service disconnect, and load-side of the first disconnect of a separately-derived system (e.g. transformer secondary). It is routed with your circuits, to connect all electrically inactive metal together (e.g. enclosures, equipment housings & framing, raceways, etc), to connect it to the grounding terminals of the service equipment. Its purpose is to provide an effective ground fault current path back to the source, to assist in tripping the breaker in the event that the electrically inactive metal gets energized. Its purpose is to make sure that the non-energized metal remains non-energized.

Line-side of a serivce disconnect, or line-side of a separately-derived system disconnect, we call what otherwise would be an EGC, a supply-side bonding jumper (SSBJ), and there is a different sizing procedure from EGC's.

The confusion lies in that these are both groundING conductors, that both get designated as green or bare. They are both conductors that shouldn't carry current under normal circumstances, but are there to keep de-energized metal from getting energized. The essential difference is whether the conductor bonds equipment to equipment (the EGC), or whether the conductor bonds the equipment to the grounding electrode (the GEC).

 

[texie]

2. For the ground wire, is this a GEC, or EGC? Ground is a poor term to use, look up definition of ground. Once you know what it is, they you will know what rules to apply.

Yes. My use of the correct terminology isn't what it should be on several electrical subjects. I am refering to the grounding wire begins at the ground electrode and then continues (without splice I guess) and connects one panel box to another. GEC & ECG? Or would bonding conductor or jumper be the correct term?

2. For the ground wire, is this a GEC, or EGC? Ground is a poor term to use, look up definition of ground. Once you know what it is, they you will know what rules to apply.

Yes. My use of the correct terminology isn't what it should be on several electrical subjects. I am refering to the grounding wire begins at the ground electrode and then continues (without splice I guess) and connects one panel box to another. GEC & ECG? Or would bonding conductor or jumper be the correct term?

You and the inspector are both wrong on this. The GEC, if connecting to each main disconnect, cannot be looped from from one to the next. You must either run each to the GE or use a common GEC with taps to each disco. The taps could just be split bolts. Or you could use a single GEC connected at a point ahead of the disconnects such as to the service neutral within a wireway or even in the meter can (if allowed by the POCO.

 

[difowler44]

If I am understanding that correctly, I am referring to the GEC, and EGC. Because the inspector wants this continuous grounding wire to begin at one grounding electrode (ground rod) (GEC part), and thread through each panel box grounding lug (piece of equipment) (EGC part) without splice, and terminate at a second ground rod located on the other side of the equipment.

When I install an outdoor 320amp service (meterbase and 2ea panel boxes on a residence) for example, I install the meterbase in the center, then I put a panel box on each side of the meterbase. I have never install one continuous grounding wire (GEC & EGC) from the grounding electrode and thread it through the panel boxes and meterbase as one continuous wire. But I could start if I have been misunderstanding what should be done all along.

 

[infinity]

You and the inspector are both wrong on this. The GEC, if connecting to each main disconnect, cannot be looped from from one to the next. You must either run each to the GE or use a common GEC with taps to each disco. The taps could just be split bolts. Or you could use a single GEC connected at a point ahead of the disconnects such as to the service neutral within a wireway or even in the meter can (if allowed by the POCO.

I agree. The inspector's method of looping the GEC is no more code compliant than using jumpers between the panels.

The single rod unless tested for 25Ω or less does not qualify as an electrode,

 

[Carultch]

You must either run each to the GE or use a common GEC with taps to each disco. The taps could just be split bolts.

I thought GEC's had to be irreversibly spliced. A split bolt is not irreversible.

 

[tom baker]

Would like to see your picture what I do is email to my self and select a small image size, then post.
The conductors from the other 2 panels are bonding jumpers to the one GEC.

 

[infinity]

I thought GEC's had to be irreversibly spliced. A split bolt is not irreversible.

The GEC ends at the first panel. The other two conductors would be bonding jumpers not a GEC so no irreversible splicing required.

 

[difowler44]

I feel like a need to take a refresher course worse than ever. But I do have a better understanding I believe now. thanks.

 

[difowler44]

I emailed the picture file to myself, then downloaded it. then tried to upload it to mike holt. The file is still too large using the downloaded version

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I emailed the picture file to myself, then downloaded it. then tried to upload it to mike holt. The file is still too large using the downloaded version

Do you know how to resize or send it to me in a conversation

 

[Carultch]

I emailed the picture file to myself, then downloaded it. then tried to upload it to mike holt. The file is still too large using the downloaded version

You can install IrfanView on your computer, assuming you have a Windows computer. It is a freeware image editing program that allows you to resize and crop your images so they are more data efficient.

 

[wwhitney]

The inspector's method of looping the GEC is no more code compliant than using jumpers between the panels.

Looking at (2017) 250.64(D) "Building or Structure with Multiple Disconnecting Means in Separate Enclosures," I'm not sure why you'd say looping a properly sized GEC is not compliant?

For paragraph (1) "Common Grounding Electrode Conductor and Taps" I see nothing prohibiting the common GEC from entering each enclosure. And while the section discusses taps, I don't see why a zero-length tap wouldn't be allowed. Or if the GEC is looping through a terminal bar to which the grounded service conductor is also connected, then the terminal bar could be considered the tap.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[tom baker]

you could use a length of 1/2” sch 80 at each panel down below grade. Run your 6 awg to ground rods looping between two and Bavaria to panel. From 3rd panel run to gr, use another acorn clamp.
In WA we can not run the GEC exposed, while taps can be made they would be buried

 

[Greentagger]

250.64(D)(1)(1)-(3) and 250.64(C) may be what you’re looking for.
Also 250.53(A)(2).

 

[takelly]

if one of your panels is damaged, can you remove it, without breaking the Grounding Electrode Conductor.

 

[Tulsa Electrician]

Take a screen shot of the pic than upload