AL/CU change

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OK Gentlemen, soooo

OK Gentlemen, soooo

Somebody out there is useing purple wire nuts for change overs. There are a heck of a lot of them being sold. Is the general feeling out there, that the wire nuts are not reliable. I have used them and felt pretty confident with the splice.However, if the manufacturer will only stand by them for incidental splices i.e., ceiling fan, light fixture installation, that type of thing, then I'm having second thoughts. Thank you for all the responses. You guys are a great source of info.
 
Is the general feeling out there, that the wire nuts are not reliable.
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I don't know if that is the case, but most of the information showing that there may be problems with the purple wirenut can be traced back to AMP.
Don
 
"I don't know if that is the case, but most of the information showing that there may be problems with the purple wirenut can be traced back to AMP."

Funny how it seems that way isn't it.
 
You could probably find a failed copalum crimp splice for every failed Ideal #65 . It is extremly important to use great care when installing either method. Aluminum in the pre Stabiloy days is very easy to nick and break when installing either device. As far as the expansion / contraction issue the purple 65 has the square cut spring which is designed to grip the wire in a way that corrects for that problem. The question is really this. Did Ideal change the directions for use of the Ideal #65 because the method does not hold up over time, or did they change the directions because the sensitivity of the issue due to misinformation and hype cause the company to "cover their backsides" in the event that one of those wirenuts gets installed improperly and then fails. I get very nervous anytime I use an Ideal #65 on old aluminum wiring, but not because I do not have faith in the product, but rather I worry about how well I did installing the product. That is where the true problem lies with attaching copper conductors to aluminum.
 
macmikeman said:
You could probably find a failed copalum crimp splice for every failed Ideal #65 . It is extremly important to use great care when installing either method. Aluminum in the pre Stabiloy days is very easy to nick and break when installing either device. As far as the expansion / contraction issue the purple 65 has the square cut spring which is designed to grip the wire in a way that corrects for that problem. The question is really this. Did Ideal change the directions for use of the Ideal #65 because the method does not hold up over time, or did they change the directions because the sensitivity of the issue due to misinformation and hype cause the company to "cover their backsides" in the event that one of those wirenuts gets installed improperly and then fails. I get very nervous anytime I use an Ideal #65 on old aluminum wiring, but not because I do not have faith in the product, but rather I worry about how well I did installing the product. That is where the true problem lies with attaching copper conductors to aluminum.
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I agree with your position "not because I do not have faith in the product, but rather I worry about how well I did installing the product. That is where the true problem lies with attaching copper conductors to Al"

It is not a question of Ideal #65 being a good, or bad connector, it's the consumer protection comments, that would make it difficult, to defend in a court case, should problems arise.
Now with that said, new connectors are entering the market, with screw type connections, will these be any better, will the installer follow all the instructions, and use a tork tool when installing it, or will they just use a screw driver, the Ideal #65 connector may be more forgiving, then a screw connection made up without the proper tork.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
I don't know if that is the case, but most of the information showing that there may be problems with the purple wirenut can be traced back to AMP.
Don
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And the report was written by a HI back in '93. I went through the whole report and the pictures. The pictures do not even show the Model 65 wirenut.
Both Ideal and UL stand behind the product. I have spoken to both companies and I have installed 1000's of these more than 4 years ago, without a single failure.
 
No one here has mentioned the AluminConn connectors for such installations. I even sent for a free sample out of EC&M last year:



pict8.jpg
connector-with-wires.jpg
 
satcom said:
Very good information and this part is intresting "the Ideal #65 is not intended for use in the pigtailing retrofit application, but only for such applications as connecting lighting fixtures and ceiling fans."

The King connectors seem to work well, for the retrofits and pigtails.
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"No one here has mentioned the AluminConn connectors for such installations. I even sent for a free sample out of EC&M last year:"

The instructions must be followed with tork requirement or these will also have problems.
 
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romexking said:
granted that most of my documentation is from the same website, however I do consider them an authority on aluminum wiring repair.

More info concerning twister #65 UL approval

.....
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Is this from the information dated in '93?

A link to source is always appreciated (and can be used by others).
 
romexking said:
I keep finding new stuff...The purple wirenuts are only listed to accept #12 aluminum, therefore you would not be able to use it in many locations in a home.


Item ID: 30-265
Name: Twister? Al/Cu (Box of 100)

Features: Aluminum-to-Copper connector provides a secure connection while preventing aluminum corrosion
Specially formulated corrosion-resistant compound provides cooler connections and increased conductivity
Accepts 1 #12 Al sol. w/ 1 #18 Cu AWG min. and 1 #10
Swept-wing design for comfort

Live-action, square-wire spring
Hexagonal shape for standard nutdriver
No pre-twisting required
UL Listed and CSA Certified
Shell rated for 105? C
Flame-retardant shell
Click to expand...

Care to supply a link for us?



***************
See related thread here...RE: Wire combination chart:
water tank

Starting at post #13 ( Pierre's )
There seems to be some discrepencies on the wire combinations
 
http://www.idealindustries.com/wt/TwistOnWireConnectors.nsf

What is really weird is that on "features" of the Purple #65 say what I posted above, the "wire combination chart" say something completly different.

Item ID: 30-365
Name: Twister? Al/Cu (Box of 1000)

Features: Aluminum-to-Copper connector provides a secure connection while preventing aluminum corrosion
Specially formulated corrosion-resistant compound provides cooler connections and increased conductivity
Accepts 1 #12 Al sol. w/ 1 #18 Cu AWG min. and 1 #10
Swept-wing design for comfort

Live-action, square-wire spring
Hexagonal shape for standard nutdriver
No pre-twisting required
UL Listed and CSA Certified
Shell rated for 105? C
Flame-retardant shell



Model Color Wire Combination Range (Inches) Quantity Cat. No.
65 Purple 600Volt*

1 #10 AL sol. w/1 or 2 #10 CU sol.
1 #10 AL w/1 or 2 #12 CU
1 #10 AL w/1 or 2 #14 CU
1 #10 AL w/1 or 2 #16 CU
2 #10 AL sol. w/1 #12 CU
2 #10 AL sol. w/1 #14 CU
2 #12 AL sol. w/1 #10 CU sol.
2 #12 AL sol. w/1 #10 CU str.
1 #12 AL sol. w/1 or 2 #10 CU sol or str
1 #12 AL str. w/1 or 2 #10 CU sol.
1 #12 AL w/1 or 2 #12 CU
2 #12 AL sol. w/1 #12 CU
1 #12 AL w/1 or 2 #14 CU
2 #12 AL sol. w/1 #14 CU
1 #10 AL w/1 or 2 #18 CU
2 #10 AL sol. w/1 #16 CU
2 #10 AL sol. w/1 #18 CU
1 #12 AL w/1 or 2 #16 CU
1 #12 AL w/1 or 2 #18 CU
2 #12 AL sol. w/1 #16 CU
2 #12 AL sol. w/1 #18 CU Card of 2 30-065
Card of 10 30-765
Card of 25 30-165
Box of 100 30-265
Carton of 1,000 30-365




Now you guys really have me confused too.
 
satcom said:
"No one here has mentioned the AluminConn connectors for such installations. I even sent for a free sample out of EC&M last year:"

The instructions must be followed with tork requirement or these will also have problems.
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In addition to the torque recommendations for installation, Alumiconn also contains the following instructions:

Manufacturer approved alternate torque method for use on solid wire only* using a screwdriver. tighten screw set until it comes in contact with the conductor. Note location of screwdriver slot and continue tightening the set screw as indicated below
1 turn #12-#10 Solid Aluminum
1/2 turn #18-#10 Solid Copper

*Alternate torque method is not associated with UL listing above

That statement seems extremely odd to me in today's age of sue everyone whenever possible. I bet it will disappear eventually.

Costs are approx. $2.95 each connector with 25 minimum, slightly less with more quantity.
 
Years ago, the 3M Scotchlock was approved for Cu/Al wiring. What happended that they are not rated for it today?

I ran across an article that said it would be better to use Scotchlock's over the Ideal's in the cases where a factory trained COPALUM installer was not available. Seems to be a bold statement seeing how 3M does not have them listed any longer for such use.
 
copalum

copalum

copalum is a product of tyco corp google copalum for complete info. only certified installers are to use tools. the crimper is not for sale only to rent it is probably the best solution next to total rewire. this has nothing to do with ideal or 3m
 
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