We have just had an inspection of a 1900 sq ft home that we'd like to purchase in phoenix az that has aluminum wiring from the 70's. I've been reading on the consumer safety site that this method is old and bad in residential homes. the method for repair ranges from completely rewiring to doing nothing. If some one has time please explain to me if the, copper pigtailing or AMP/COPALUM crimp medthod is the prefered repair. I also read that there was a change in methods handling this in june of 2007. Is repairing a home in this instance VERY expensive? Should we look for another house?Thanks for your thoughts
aluminum residental wiring
- Thread starter cmsnurse
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al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Cavie
Senior Member
- Location
- SW Florida
cmsnurse said:
Check with your insurance company BEFORE you buy. They may not cover it.
76nemo
Senior Member
- Location
- Ogdensburg, NY
I personally won't try to make AL any safer, I replace it, all or nothing.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
My first house had aluminum wiring. Fortunately the fire department was just down the road.... I am kidding. I never had a problem and all the houses in that development were aluminum wiring. To my knowledge none has burned down from it.
There are things you can do to make it safer but I would not not buy the house because of it.
There are things you can do to make it safer but I would not not buy the house because of it.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
You need to have someone who knows what he or she is doing take a close look at the installation. There was a short period of time in the mid 70s when the new alloy aluminum conductors were available. If that product along with CO/ALR devices were used I would have no concerns. We did a number of buildings with that combination of wire and devices where we also did the service work for the next 12-15 years. There were no more service calls for that combination than for a "copper" job. I have no experience with the older aluminum conductors that have caused many problems.
Don
Don
Pierre C Belarge
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Aluminum wiring is not the issue, it is the terminations - how the different devices are spliced together.
If you do consider buying the house, the person to contact should be licensed, insured and be an experienced Aluminum wiring electricial contractor. Not someone who says he is experienced, but one who can refer you to someone who has aluminum wiring in their house that he worked in.
Copaluming is very expensive and is not necessarily the way to go (my opinion). Me personally, if I was to pay for Copalum, I would rewire first, considering the difference in cost.
There are several ways that the Aluminum terminations can be performed and still be safe.
I myself did extensive studies (in conjunction with an engineering firm) on this topic and have been involved in 1000s of units that have aluminum wiring.
If you do consider buying the house, the person to contact should be licensed, insured and be an experienced Aluminum wiring electricial contractor. Not someone who says he is experienced, but one who can refer you to someone who has aluminum wiring in their house that he worked in.
Copaluming is very expensive and is not necessarily the way to go (my opinion). Me personally, if I was to pay for Copalum, I would rewire first, considering the difference in cost.
There are several ways that the Aluminum terminations can be performed and still be safe.
I myself did extensive studies (in conjunction with an engineering firm) on this topic and have been involved in 1000s of units that have aluminum wiring.
frizbeedog
Senior Member
- Location
- Oregon
Cavie said:
this is especially true for manufactured homes
quogueelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- new york
get some rewire quotes
get some rewire quotes
get some rewire quotes
And use them in your price negotiation then it is win win for everyone. You dont want to go to sleep every night thinking that your br ac unit will start a fire and burn the house down. Aluminum installed in the 70s needs to be gone for piece of mind. Yes some people experience little to no problems but do you want to live every day wond3ering if you will wake up every morning?? get rid of 1 room a year and start at the rooms closest to the panel where the highest loads exist. There is no good experience I have ever had from aluminum wiring.cmsnurse said:
1970's aluminum wiring is a completely different "animal" than the current AA-8000 alloy wiring. . There's a night and day difference.
If you have 70's aluminum, don't mess around with trying to reterminate it, rip it out and start over.
If you have AA-8000 alloy, there's nothing wrong with it. . I wouldn't hesitate having it in my own house. . In northern Ohio, AA-8000 SE is used instead of copper Romex by most installers for all runs of 6gauge and larger, service entrance, feeder, b-circuits, everything.
David
added: AA-8000 is the only aluminum currently allowed by code for new installs [310.14]
If you have 70's aluminum, don't mess around with trying to reterminate it, rip it out and start over.
If you have AA-8000 alloy, there's nothing wrong with it. . I wouldn't hesitate having it in my own house. . In northern Ohio, AA-8000 SE is used instead of copper Romex by most installers for all runs of 6gauge and larger, service entrance, feeder, b-circuits, everything.
David
added: AA-8000 is the only aluminum currently allowed by code for new installs [310.14]
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- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
David,
Don
The new alloy aluminum conductors and CO/ALR devices came into the market in late 1973 or very early 74.
Don
don_resqcapt19 said:
If it's possible that the house could have been wired in AA-8000 alloy, if you can find a conductor that can be easily replaced, bend it back and forth about 10 times and see if it breaks. . Straight aluminum will probably break on the 4th or 5th bend, the AA-8000 won't be damaged by even 20 bends.
Len
Senior Member
- Location
- Bucks County
Aluminum Wire
Aluminum Wire
If you have aluminum wiring it has to be replaced. The cost to re-wire a house for us is about $5K per floor, not including some patching and painting. Alcoa was the manufacturer back then. A few years after they started selling they put out a notice that wiring should be replaced and were offering assistance. This has long since gone.
Aluminum Wire
If you have aluminum wiring it has to be replaced. The cost to re-wire a house for us is about $5K per floor, not including some patching and painting. Alcoa was the manufacturer back then. A few years after they started selling they put out a notice that wiring should be replaced and were offering assistance. This has long since gone.
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Can you provide a citation for that?Len said:
Perhaps you are refering to a local ordinance?
What are you smoking?? We can't do new construction in AZ for 5K much less rewire. They have 1900 square feet on slab with no "real" attic (if any at all)
I have seen thousands of homes here in Phoenix with Al wiring from the 70's. Hell I installed a lot of them as a young man
The only issue I come across is when homeowners/handymen replace switches/outlets.
Like someone stated earlier, the issue isn't with the wire but with the terminations.
Get somebody locally that is knowledgeable to inspect it and give you suggestions on how to deal with it. You will likely get different opinions as shown in here
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petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
No wonder no one knows what the heck to do (if anything) with AL house wiring.
The answer is probably something like this - if it hasn't failed by now, it probably won't.
You may want to check with your homeowners insurance company first. There is a bit of an urban myth going around about insurance companies not wanting to insure homes wired in AL. As best I can tell, it is not true. It does seem to be true that they may charge extra for covering homes with this kind of wiring, but it also seems to be much less of an issue than it is sometimes made out to be.
I am not convinced that any of the supposed fixes are any better than the supposed problem, and in any case it only applies to some AL wiring, and you would need to get someone experienced in AL wiring to take a look at it to see if there even is a problem in the first place. Very few electrical contractors have any significant experience with this stuff, so it may be hard to find an appropriate contractor to take a look at it and give you real good answers.
If it bothers you a lot, pass on the house, or be prepared to spend the money to replace the aluminum wiring.
The answer is probably something like this - if it hasn't failed by now, it probably won't.
You may want to check with your homeowners insurance company first. There is a bit of an urban myth going around about insurance companies not wanting to insure homes wired in AL. As best I can tell, it is not true. It does seem to be true that they may charge extra for covering homes with this kind of wiring, but it also seems to be much less of an issue than it is sometimes made out to be.
I am not convinced that any of the supposed fixes are any better than the supposed problem, and in any case it only applies to some AL wiring, and you would need to get someone experienced in AL wiring to take a look at it to see if there even is a problem in the first place. Very few electrical contractors have any significant experience with this stuff, so it may be hard to find an appropriate contractor to take a look at it and give you real good answers.
If it bothers you a lot, pass on the house, or be prepared to spend the money to replace the aluminum wiring.
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petersonra said:
I don't agree with that idea. . The vast majority of house electrical fires are in older homes.
petersonra said:
"only applies to some AL wiring"
I agree
"an appropriate contractor to take a look at it"
I'll bet that contractor will give it the bend test. . You don't need him for that. . You can do that yourself. . Bend it back sharply 180? back on to itself and then back the other way as sharply. . Back and forth and after 5 to 10 bends you'll either be holding a short piece of wire or you have AA-8000.
David
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
dnem said:
I would bet the vast majority of older homes use copper wiring. I am not sure that AL fares any worse with age than copper.
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