Aluminum wire? Compact conductor?

[prostock]

My instructor recently stated that 90% of Aluminum that is purchased at the local supply house is of the compact conductor classification.

Is this true? Is 4/0 ser cable made up of compact conductors?

 

[iwire]

Re: Aluminum wire? Compact conductor?

Yeah SE is a compact conductor

Definition: Compact stranding is the result of a manufacturing process where the standard conductor is compressed to the extent that the interstices (voids between strand wires) are virtually eliminated.

 

[prostock]

Re: Aluminum wire? Compact conductor?

thanks.
so is 90% of the AL purchased CC?
Like THHN and others besides SEC/SER?

 

[peter d]

Re: Aluminum wire? Compact conductor?

90%? Who knows. Try here If not, try here

[ April 14, 2004, 09:33 PM: Message edited by: peter d ]

 

[iwire]

Re: Aluminum wire? Compact conductor?

I do not know how to find that out, I do not work with AL that much except SE for job temps.

It is easy to tell compact conductors by looking at them, the strands are not round, more of a pie shape.

 

[prostock]

Re: Aluminum wire? Compact conductor?

Yeah, I have seen it and you can definatly tell when you have it. I was only wondering if most of the AL that is sold is CC. It makes an difference when using the conductor fill charts.
thanks for the feedback everyone.

 

[steve66]

Re: Aluminum wire? Compact conductor?

Iwire:

the strands are not round, more of a pie shape.

I would probably know what you meant if I saw a compact conductor, but I'm one of those engineers they seldom let out of the office. Can you explain "pie shape". Isn't a pie shape round?

Steve

 

[ryan_618]

Re: Aluminum wire? Compact conductor?

I found this picture

At this site

 

[steve66]

Re: Aluminum wire? Compact conductor?

Aha. So they are wedge shaped like a half eaten piece of pie. (I figured a piece of pie was what Iwire was refering too, but the picture sure helped).

I would imagine the compact conductor cable is less flexible and harder to work with than regular cable. Am I right??

Steve

 

[ed downey]

Re: Aluminum wire? Compact conductor?

Its Much Easier To Work With Than Copper.

 

[paul32]

Re: Aluminum wire? Compact conductor?

Is aluminum easier than copper even though the alumimum will be a larger size and the extra work of cleaning etc aluminum needs? I've wondered why aluminum is always used for service conductors instead of copper.

 

[bphgravity]

Re: Aluminum wire? Compact conductor?

There are two main reasons why AL is used over CU on larger installations like services. First, AL is much cheaper than CU at the larger sizes. Second, AL weighs much less than CU.

Average net cable weight of stranded 4/0 CU is 653 pounds per 1,000 feet.

Average net cable weight of stranded 4/0 AL is 199 pounds per 1,000 feet.

http://www.nexansenergy.com/egy/equip/bw/strand.html

 

[iwire]

Re: Aluminum wire? Compact conductor?

Originally posted by steve66:
Can you explain "pie shape". Isn't a pie shape round?

That is true isn't it.

I should have said like a slice of pie, or a wedge.

I went to the web site that Ryan pointed us to and I have not worked with wire like that.

The compact stranded conductors I have worked with are virtually smooth on the outer circumference when the insulation is striped, by comparison stranded copper is not smooth as each strand is round instead of wedge shaped.

Bob

 

[ed downey]

Re: Aluminum wire? Compact conductor?

FYI - On Any Large Commercial Project That Is Overbudget (Which Is Usually All Of Them) I Generally Suggest The Value Engineeing To Use Alcan Stabiloy MC Cable Or Alcan Stabiloy Conductors In Conduit For A Value Engineering Alternative. For Round Numbers (I Haven't Done A Comparison Within The Last 6 Months Since Copper Prices Have Been Skyrocketing) You Generally Save About 20% On A 2000A Feeder By Switching From Copper Wire In Conduit To A Stabiloy MC Product. Most Of This Savings Is In The Labor Installation.
-Ed

 

[charlie]

Re: Aluminum wire? Compact conductor?

Additionally, unless required by the manufacturers instructions, the cleaning with a wire brush and the use of inhibiting compound is not required any more.

 

[douglas hansen]

Re: Aluminum wire? Compact conductor?

Originally posted by charlie:
Additionally, unless required by the manufacturers instructions, the cleaning with a wire brush and the use of inhibiting compound is not required any more.

Charlie - NECA/AA 104-2000 Recommended Practice for Installing Aluminum Building Wire and Cable does call for wire brushing and listed joint compound (3.1.2, 3.1.3, 3.2). It looks like they got their wording straight from Alcan:

http://www.cable.alcan.com/AlcanCableLiveSiteAttachments/EN//Markets/Reference%20Library/Product%20Performance/Recommendations%20for%20Connectors.pdf

I'm not convinced that it is "required" either. Does Alcan's recommendation make it part of the instructions per its listing? Is it a 110.3B issue?

Back to the question of how much is compact stranded, I was under the impression it was 100%, and that's why we got a new column in 312.6(B).

Douglas Hansen
www.codecheck.com

 

[tom baker]

Re: Aluminum wire? Compact conductor?

A UL rep explained the de-ox (no-al-ox)requirement to my self and Mike Holt last fall at the IAEI meeting: UL tests the connection without de-ox. If it passes then de-ox is not required. If it fails the test is repeated with d-ox.

 

[douglas hansen]

Re: Aluminum wire? Compact conductor?

Thanks Tom. Does that mean we would see some terminals marked with a requirement for anti-oxidant?

Douglas Hansen

 

[nelsonjim]

the new guy

the new guy

In the NEC 2005 handbook page 1211 it states "Most aluminum building wire in types THW,THWN,THHN,and XHHW is compact stranded". Is there a definitive answer to this?