Aluminum wire

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cartman

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1) Could you wire a house or commercial building with aluminum wire? There is nothing in the NEC prohibiting its use is there?
2) What do you prefer, and why? (A)copper pigtails off of aluminum wire to feed receptacles in a house that has aluminum wiring. Or (B) CU/AL rated receptacles?
3) Thanks
4) :)
 
Re: Aluminum wire

1.) I am assuming that you are talking about residential wire (12/14AWG Solid)and it is my understanding that solid aluminum wire tends to break off where it is stripped and entering the back of the device leaving it free to wonder around inside the box. Larger wire, is commonly aluminum however.

2.) I have heard some nasty stuff about aluminum house wiring, and that if you run into it, that the entire run should be replaced. But if I had the choice I would probably just use the CU/AL device, most common devices are already rated for aluminum wiring.
 
Re: Aluminum wire

Terminations require special attention especially when to copper. I'm pretty sure there are more fires associated with aluminum becauase of that.

Take a look at 110.14.
 
Re: Aluminum wire

There are existing (older) threads on this. If you check back you'll find them - maybe even in the archives.

Anyway, the basic problem with aluminum 14 and 12 gauge branch wiring is that aluminum expands and contracts with heat/cold. It causes the terminal screws on the receptacles and switches to loosen causing the wire to arc at the terminals. It is also very plyable and becomes brittle at the terminals. Due to a large number house fires caused as a result of these aluminum wiring faults this wiring method is no longer used, not to mention - I don't think you'll find any 14 or 12 wire around for sale.

As Physis mentioned, there are special termination methods for this type of wire (I'm not sure what they are because I haven't had to deal with it).

Finally, if you wire nut aluminum and copper wire together nothing will probably happen for a long time. However, once you pass electricity through that junction point it will start to oxidize unless you use an anti-oxidant compound. Not a popular wiring method. I'd stick to copper if I were you.
 
Re: Aluminum wire

#14 aluminum does not exist as far as I know. Aluminum and copper are not to be mixed except in old remodels or circuit repair with listed connectors. The old alloys were very bad but the new electrical alloys are great and there is no real problem with the use of aluminum conductors.

The biggest problem today with aluminum wire is the fear people have of its use and the untrained people that attempt to use it. You have to be careful with it and it can't be treated like copper. :D
 
Re: Aluminum wire

proper termination practice is the problem with aluminum wire. and if these practices were known back in the seventies, when many homes were wired with aluminum branch circuit conductors, there would be alot less problems with it. but then, the labor required to properly terminate it might have been weighed by the contractor and copper might have been cheaper? load conditions also enter into this failure rating. many of us have seen copper discolored due to overloads during it's lifespan---aluminum will not take this abuse! i can remember one housing developement that used aluminum branch circuits --- and the homes were large and expensive. almost all of them began to have power outages on their kitchen counter receptacles. the installer used the "push-in" or "back wire" feature of the kitchen receptacles. when you removed the receptacle--the aluminum #10 solid wire or wires(both hot and neutral) would be cut at the point that the metal spring blades hold the wire. the entire neighborhood needed repair!

i was a thermographer and looked at plenty of aluminum wire terminations --- if the person took the time to terminate it correctly and the wire was sized correctly for the load --- it worked fine.

to use aluminum on branch circuits is not feasable due to wire size(pipe fill)and terminating kit costs and the added labor. what could be the cost savings in a residence?
 
Re: Aluminum wire

Last I talked to a manufacturer rep; small gauge AL has not been manufactured for many years.
You can get SER and other cables in # 8 and larger
THHN comes in #6 and larger
 
Re: Aluminum wire

The only reason I asked the question is because a homeowner told me he had aluminum wiring in his house, and that he thought the NEC stated he had to change it all to copper. I told him "I think you could wire a house with all aluminum branch circuits if you wanted to using the 2005 NEC. No ones going to do it, but you could if you wanted to". Then he asked what his options were and I said copper pigtails or CU/AL devices. I like using the CU/AL devices as I can install those quicker than a pigtail and a CU rated receptacle.
 
Re: Aluminum wire

Ok at the time there house was wired ,late 60s it was legal and common.There is no law or code to make them change it.It might be wise to change it but there are ways to correct it short of a rewire.As far as any code to say if you had aluminum #12 or #14 could you use it,maybe, but no electrician would even think of using it.This is just one of them bad mistakes that managed to get approved for a few years.Personally if it was my house i would either rewire or sell the house.It is a fire waiting to start.I am one of these people that could drive a car with breaks that are worn out , but as soon as i know they are bad i wont even take it to the corner store.Maybe i go overboard but i would not sleep in a house with aluminum branch circuits.My wife and kids are worth more to me than that.You might want to give the customer an estimate to rewire,but i suggest you do it on T and M.

Might add that a good H I would point this out to a buyer.That would save them thousands.

[ January 19, 2005, 06:13 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
 
Re: Aluminum wire

AMP cop-a-lum (spelling unsure) is the best and the most expensive way to pigtail AL. It is a mini hypress connection.
The next best way is to use IDEAL purple wirenuts. They are UL listed, but some do not like them. The CPSC is one of them. Someone had a comment about them on this forum, but I can't remember what it was.
 
Re: Aluminum wire

Some cities have their own rule about aluminum wiring in houses. This rule is a step above the code book.
Where I live you cannot install aluminum wire in residential houses. Only exception is the service wire. I would replace the wire or I would not touch it. Check with your municipality. :p
 
Re: Aluminum wire

The next best way is to use IDEAL purple wirenuts. They are UL listed, but some do not like them.
Click to expand...
This is from memory so if I am wrong, please correct me.

The listing of the Cu. to Al. Wirenuts has been withdrawn. The only two ways of "fixing" the Al. wiring method is to either use the Amp equipment or to rewire the home.
 
Re: Aluminum wire

[/QUOTE]This is from memory so if I am wrong, please correct me.

The listing of the Cu. to Al. Wirenuts has been withdrawn. The only two ways of "fixing" the Al. wiring method is to either use the Amp equipment or to rewire the home. [/QB][/QUOTE]
So is this true, we cant use listed wire nuts anymore? I have a job coming up where the homeowner will not let us use CU/AL receptacles, they want copper pigtails. :(
 
Re: Aluminum wire

Originally posted by cartman:
I have a job coming up where the homeowner will not let us use CU/AL receptacles, they want copper pigtails. :(
Click to expand...
Is there some reason why the homeowner is telling you what to do? :confused:

If I were you, I would run away from this. From what I know, the AMP Copalum system is the only safe way to pigtail.
 
Re: Aluminum wire

I have a job coming up where the homeowner will not let us use CU/AL receptacles, they want copper pigtails.
Click to expand...
Does the home owner know what he's insisting is stupid?
 
Re: Aluminum wire

The homeowner wants the pigtails because he said thats what his home owners insurance company told him they want. Having never owned a home I don't know if what he is saying is true or not. I'm just taking his word for it. I guess I could call the insurance co. myself and find out if they will allow CU/AL devices, but this doesn't help me when it comes to the light fixtures, and the Amp copalum tool that keeps getting mentioned is only for sale to people trained to use it. The training costs $750 plus you pay for the instructors plain ticket, room, and meals. Guess someone else will have to do this job as I cant use pigtails and I'm not paying $750 + to get certified to do the job. Thanks for all the replies. :)
 
Re: Aluminum wire

Cartman,

I'm not picking on you. I think it's probably your boss who should be called on the carpet.

Charlie,

I dunno. :)
 
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