Am I Crazy?

[A-1Sparky]

You can be a A+ Super Electrician Trouble Shooter but a poor Businessman. Doing the work is the satisfying part. Figuring the bill is the hard part. I am a much better Electrician than businessman.

This seems to be the most common issue that new ECs have. However, just like improving your skills in the electrical trade, you can't become a better businessman if you don't put in the effort.

Personally, I HATE sheetrocking and taping. But I made myself do it for the houses I've built. I can do a respectable job with it now, but probably wouldn't be able to if I had just always hired it out. I guess I feel that way about the business end if contracting...it kinda sucks, but is an important skill to obtain for success.

 

[A-1Sparky]

When I first got licensed as a contractor in 2010 I tried to advertise but soon found I didn't have time to do all the estimating and the work and still do my full time job that has nothing to do with tools.

My worry exactly. Having three days off a week definitely helps, but will that be enough time to make an honest go of it?...I don't know.

 

[A-1Sparky]

No one has mentioned this but women tend to be a lot more supportive before the wedding than after. Before the wedding a woman will agree to almost anything but after she will agree to almost nothing. I don't think I would wish to start a business and get married at the same time. Both have problems that will need to be ironed out and take much attention.

Very good points. But I've already told her that if she does a 180 after the wedding, then she can start looking for another husband.

 

[growler]

No one has mentioned this but women tend to be a lot more supportive before the wedding than after. Before the wedding a woman will agree to almost anything but after she will agree to almost nothing. I don't think I would wish to start a business and get married at the same time. Both have problems that will need to be ironed out and take much attention.

Very good points. But I've already told her that if she does a 180 after the wedding, then she can start looking for another husband.

Marriage is like a bear trap, easier to get into than out of. I try never to discourage anyone from getting married or going into business but I feel they should know what they are getting into. From experience I will say that you never know how a woman feels about anything until after the wedding and then you will learn how she feels about everything. We men tend to stay the same after marriage (women want us to change) and women tend to change after marriage and we want them to stay the same ( the same as the women we were dateing ).

 

[troberts2007]

Wow , this post hit Home. I was married in may a year ago and got my EC license in Jan following it. I work a corp job now that I used to love but after our last merger I hate. I was incharge of several large scale low voltage projects as well as performing small Moves adds and and changes on phones and data lines. after merger I still do some of the phone work but thats going away as we go Voip. The guy who replaced me running projects has doesnt have half the experience but he does look better in a suit and just happens to be in the same hunting club as the CIO. but thats a seperate story.
My wife was nervous that I was just going to up and quit my job when I got my license but we set down and made a plan togather that we both could agree on and we are still working that that plan. if we stay on schedule I should have about a year or less to go.
Our goal and Plan is to get 100% dept free Plus 3-6 months worth of household expenses then build another 3-6 month worth of expenses/operating capital for the buisness. IF you both set down and talk about it like this so that she knows you have a plan and you are both on the same page im sure it will calm many of the fears you and her may have. If your not debt free then I would highly suggest listening/reading Dave Ramsey and I would get his book on entreleadership to help set up your buisness.

One thing you do have going for you is awsome hours, I would kill to work 2nd shift 4 days a week. I work 8-4 so its only nights and week ends for me but I still get alot of service work and use part of my 4 weeks vaction and 12 sickdays for the bigger jobs that i cant do other wise. if you have your mornings free and a few days thru the week you can get alot of residential service work to help you build your buisness.

good luck no matter what you decide and remember" if you fail to plan, then plan to fail." be smart with what ever you decide and keep your wife included its better to have her on your side remember that you are a team, she can be a great Asset as an unofficial employee who can help you with billing ,invoice's and such while your working two jobs.

 

[A-1Sparky]

Thanks to everyone for all of the advice and information...you've given me a lot to consider :?

 

[__dan]

Yes you got some great advice, which is typical for the board.

What I would say is, it is your current job that put you in the position of being able to marry and start a household. The job security of steady work and pay, bennies, paid vaca and holiday, scheduled time off. The marriage itself is like starting a million dollar business. If you were self employed prior to, you could have easily been in the position of working all the time, no free time, no free cash flow, and not in a position to marry.

If electrical contracting was just do the work, get paid, bank profits, this board would be a place for trading grilling recipes and fish catch photos.

The EC problems are all demand related. The best way to run a business is to have a regular job to pay the bills, allowing you to be selective about taking only the gravy jobs where you get paid for the work at a level that is profitable.

To scale up into the next level, you need the customers who have that demand and pay, such as working for the university directly as a bid contractor, not working as a sub for their GC, who will shop around and deny profits to the subs. The customers would make or break the business.

One way to test the waters would be to bid work without actually gearing all the way up with expenses first, work second. If you were to pull plans, put a bid together, when you see where the work actually sells for, it could likely be well below what you thought possible. You bid a new panel and the other guy just creates space in the old panel by doubling up loads on breakers. There are a half million variations on this theme, most of them things I could never conscientiously do.

You could try the trial bid process, identify and target customers or markets, prospect those customers for those who want you to bid and do their work, trial bid to see where the market's selling price for the work is, determine estimated profitability or loss. Don't worry about bidding without the productive capacity to actually do the job (ramping up your expenses prior). There will always be other bidders who can step in if you decline for a legitimate reason (you bid too much stuff all at the same time and are just too busy for everything). Unless there is a bid bond there is no fault or recourse, and even with a bid bond they will release you before the job starts because they want to start with someone who wants to start the job.

If you trial bid in the market and see expectation of profitability, you can always organize and orient in that direction. If you see "what that's ridiculous", which is common, you can stand aside with little exposure because of ongoing fixed expenses of the business operating footprint.

In sum, working for the university as the payroll electrician is probably the best job in the area for an electrician.

 

[A-1Sparky]

In sum, working for the university as the payroll electrician is probably the best job in the area for an electrician.

POP...did you hear that? That was the sound of my bubble bursting. Just kidding. I guess that I'm just having an issue adjusting to the schedule (second shift) and the pace. I'm a go-getter, and the university is loaded with LAZY people. It just seems to me that I could make a lot more money and be happier working for myself. I do understand the pitfalls involved, but I also don't want to be 50 years old saying "I wish I would have taken the chance and started my own business."

 

[kwired]

POP...did you hear that? That was the sound of my bubble bursting. Just kidding. I guess that I'm just having an issue adjusting to the schedule (second shift) and the pace. I'm a go-getter, and the university is loaded with LAZY people. It just seems to me that I could make a lot more money and be happier working for myself. I do understand the pitfalls involved, but I also don't want to be 50 years old saying "I wish I would have taken the chance and started my own business."

Well - I am 46, and wondering if when I am 50 I won't be saying "I wish I had gotten out of my own business sooner". I was a go-getter when I started. I am not so much anymore, but wish I still had that same kind of spark. Things change as the years go by. Other things in your life become more important to you. Still not saying contracting is not right for you. It very well may be good for you - but depending on how well it goes it may not always be right for you. I think it is easier to switch jobs then it is to switch from self employment to a full time job, depending on some circumstances of course. If you still have regular clients it is harder to get out of business, unless you are selling said business and someone else is going to take them over. Doesn't always work that simple though.

Right now I am looking into getting a job and either slowing down or quitting service and contracting - kind of depends on the job I find. I have pending and even some started projects for long time good clients that I plan to see finished, but depending on how things work out may not be all that easy to do. If I were simply changing jobs between employers, I wouldn't necessarily care so much what was left unfinished in most cases.

 

[A-1Sparky]

Well - I am 46, and wondering if when I am 50 I won't be saying "I wish I had gotten out of my own business sooner". I was a go-getter when I started. I am not so much anymore, but wish I still had that same kind of spark. Things change as the years go by. Other things in your life become more important to you. Still not saying contracting is not right for you. It very well may be good for you - but depending on how well it goes it may not always be right for you. I think it is easier to switch jobs then it is to switch from self employment to a full time job, depending on some circumstances of course. If you still have regular clients it is harder to get out of business, unless you are selling said business and someone else is going to take them over. Doesn't always work that simple though.

Right now I am looking into getting a job and either slowing down or quitting service and contracting - kind of depends on the job I find. I have pending and even some started projects for long time good clients that I plan to see finished, but depending on how things work out may not be all that easy to do. If I were simply changing jobs between employers, I wouldn't necessarily care so much what was left unfinished in most cases.

How long have you been in business for yourself?


I suppose I could make the transition, and if I got sick of it down the road I could always go to work for someone else again.

 

[__dan]

POP...did you hear that? That was the sound of my bubble bursting. Just kidding. I guess that I'm just having an issue adjusting to the schedule (second shift) and the pace. I'm a go-getter, and the university is loaded with LAZY people. It just seems to me that I could make a lot more money and be happier working for myself. I do understand the pitfalls involved, but I also don't want to be 50 years old saying "I wish I would have taken the chance and started my own business."

Second shift is perfect. Call the local contractors and offer yourself for day labor, see what the going rate is. Limit your overwork by pricing yourself up out of the commodity warm body day labor rate.

If you have the schmoozing skills, find some local property / facility manager who wants to be schmoozed and nothing else. Find out how far he wants his pants pulled down ...

If you have the technical skills, find some local property / facility manager who wants his pants pulled down and help him out with that ...

It can be fun if you're making money, just avoid those who find it fun to loose your money. Most likely you will need the payroll job to decline those who want their pants pulled down for nothing. Certainly, you will gain a new insight bidding work into the local market. The payroll job will keep you from starving at it.

 

[Fulthrotl]

I'm the type of person who refuses to be defeated. I'll find a way to succeed one way or another, regardless of what I have to sacrifice to do so. I know that's good and bad, but it's just the way I'm wired. .
Unfortunately, I'm only making about $21/hr right now, and I know that I'm worth significantly more than that. And I'm at a point in my life, age-wise, where I feel it's either "now or never". You only have a limited time working in the trades before, physically, it becomes too difficult. I just don't want to wait too long.

'mkay...... i looked at your profile.... you are 38.... i'm 58, and just finished working saturday and sunday....
monday, i'm pulling 3/0, tues. i'm in plan check, and wed i start three 4" GRC overhead to feed an 800 amp
panel, solo.... lemme know when it becomes too difficult and i have to stop.... i'm starting to get tired.....
it's only about 200' of pipe, but it's 14' in the air on a rack i've got to build, crosses over the main gear and a
12' barbed wire fence, goes a little while, and 90's into the gear i haven't set yet.

so, being a one man band, some days are gonna look like that. thursday was 14 hours on a roof in brea, and
i forgot my straw hat, and it was close to 100, friday was more of the same, saturday was setting a 75 kva xfmr,
with pipe, today was setting a 225 kva transformer.... and it's gonna run like that till the 14th of next month,
then i get a week off for vacation, then it's gonna run like that till november. no sick leave, no "mental health days"
off, zip.

so, before you flush this job, and it's benefits..... think long and hard. at 58, i figured i'd be a foreman or GF for someone,
but the economy in this part of the country didn't cooperate, so here we are. i'll be up at 5 am or so, and off on another
great adventure... but there is a lot to be said for having a place to go where you don't burn the boat to the waterline
every day, or sit at home with nothing to do.

 

[A-1Sparky]

'mkay...... i looked at your profile.... you are 38.... i'm 58, and just finished working saturday and sunday....
monday, i'm pulling 3/0, tues. i'm in plan check, and wed i start three 4" GRC overhead to feed an 800 amp
panel, solo.... lemme know when it becomes too difficult and i have to stop.... i'm starting to get tired.....
it's only about 200' of pipe, but it's 14' in the air on a rack i've got to build, crosses over the main gear and a
12' barbed wire fence, goes a little while, and 90's into the gear i haven't set yet.

so, being a one man band, some days are gonna look like that. thursday was 14 hours on a roof in brea, and
i forgot my straw hat, and it was close to 100, friday was more of the same, saturday was setting a 75 kva xfmr,
with pipe, today was setting a 225 kva transformer.... and it's gonna run like that till the 14th of next month,
then i get a week off for vacation, then it's gonna run like that till november. no sick leave, no "mental health days"
off, zip.

so, before you flush this job, and it's benefits..... think long and hard. at 58, i figured i'd be a foreman or GF for someone,
but the economy in this part of the country didn't cooperate, so here we are. i'll be up at 5 am or so, and off on another
great adventure... but there is a lot to be said for having a place to go where you don't burn the boat to the waterline
every day, or sit at home with nothing to do.

Sounds to me like you like to work hard too :thumbsup: I've followed your posts for years and definitely respect your opinion. There must be some upsides to working for yourself. It sounds as if you've been at it for quite a while. I'm thinking that your piggy bank is significantly larger than mine as well.

I'm not planning on just up and leaving this job...I'm going to feel things out for a while first. Hopefully it goes well. If not, I'll still have the steady gig to pay the bills.

 

[kwired]

How long have you been in business for yourself?


I suppose I could make the transition, and if I got sick of it down the road I could always go to work for someone else again.

I've been doing it myself for about 17 years. There were good times, there were bad times. Overall though I have been married to the buiness. I don't do much for fun, vacations are always only a few days and seldom have gone much more then a couple hundred miles away. Never have gotten that much ahead financially, and have worked my tail off to stay afloat for the most part. Again there were a few great years, and there were a few horrible years - averaging out to a point that it makes me wonder if it was worth it or not. If I take on another job, it will not be for another EC - unless I absolutely have to. I just don't see that ever working out that well, I can see expectations from me because of experience but not willing to pay me enough to justify that. I will probably need to look at being an in house electrician for some plant, campus, etc. or maybe be an instructor or inspector or something along those lines.

I still like what I do, just getting tired of also being the accountant, the salesman, the purchasing agent .. and wearing all those other hats 24/7. Would be kind of nice to come home on a Friday and forget about work until Monday morning again. If I want to be busy on my time off I can be busy doing my own thing instead of what has to be done.

You can try it for a while, but the fact it is something kind of new to you will make it more exciting now, it is 10 years down the road, or when you do have some failures or slow periods that it will start eating at you more then it does at first. But don't let me discourage you too much because that doesn't mean things will be the same for you.

If you don't want to be married to your business, you eventually will need employees or you will never be able to get away from it even if you want to for just a few days. Employees are not cheap, so things have to be working well or they are too expensive to have. If you want the business to operate itself in your absence you not only need employees you need good ones that can run it when you are away. Those people will want better pay then the typical "helper" as well as benefits, or they will also be tempted to try to do it on their own.

 

[A-1Sparky]

I've been doing it myself for about 17 years. There were good times, there were bad times. Overall though I have been married to the buiness. I don't do much for fun, vacations are always only a few days and seldom have gone much more then a couple hundred miles away. Never have gotten that much ahead financially, and have worked my tail off to stay afloat for the most part. Again there were a few great years, and there were a few horrible years - averaging out to a point that it makes me wonder if it was worth it or not. If I take on another job, it will not be for another EC - unless I absolutely have to. I just don't see that ever working out that well, I can see expectations from me because of experience but not willing to pay me enough to justify that. I will probably need to look at being an in house electrician for some plant, campus, etc. or maybe be an instructor or inspector or something along those lines.

I still like what I do, just getting tired of also being the accountant, the salesman, the purchasing agent .. and wearing all those other hats 24/7. Would be kind of nice to come home on a Friday and forget about work until Monday morning again. If I want to be busy on my time off I can be busy doing my own thing instead of what has to be done.

You can try it for a while, but the fact it is something kind of new to you will make it more exciting now, it is 10 years down the road, or when you do have some failures or slow periods that it will start eating at you more then it does at first. But don't let me discourage you too much because that doesn't mean things will be the same for you.

If you don't want to be married to your business, you eventually will need employees or you will never be able to get away from it even if you want to for just a few days. Employees are not cheap, so things have to be working well or they are too expensive to have. If you want the business to operate itself in your absence you not only need employees you need good ones that can run it when you are away. Those people will want better pay then the typical "helper" as well as benefits, or they will also be tempted to try to do it on their own.

I appreciate you taking the time to explain your experiences. You and a lot of others have given me quite a bit to think about.

 

[ptonsparky]

Lots of good advice. I started my own shop in 1980. I have no idea how we managed to survive, let alone raise three kids and stay married. One year I netted less than one one service call we did last month. I am starting to think retirement and can only do that because my wife worked as a school teacher and has one of the best plans around. I have had one guy with me for 20, another, for 7, and good office help for 5 years.

 

[ptonsparky]

...and to finish the previous post because I had time to go for a walk with the wife...you can't do it all and it takes some of us longer to figure it out.

Good luck.

 

[A-1Sparky]

...and to finish the previous post because I had time to go for a walk with the wife...you can't do it all and it takes some of us longer to figure it out.

Good luck.

Thanks, Tom

 

[Wingrider]

Been there, done that, got the T-Shirt

Been there, done that, got the T-Shirt

"I know that I could make a lot more money as an engineer, but I love to work with my hands. That's why I'm leaning more toward the EC route."

I was an electrician in CA for 22 years, was diagnosed with RA in 1993, lost my career, went to school to get my BSEE, and have been working as an EE ever since for a large corporation. The EE degree took a long time due to the fact that having a BA or BS in an unrelated field does not cover the requirements of the BSEE. After completing my AS with all the GE requirements it still took three years to get through the four year program at an engineering university. I have never looked back at my career as an electrician with any regret, as I use all that knowledge in by present field, with very little use of what I learned in college.

With my engineering degree I have been able to amass several years wages, only to 'loan' most of it to my three 35-40 year old sons, which had to open their own EC business. They are working steady, but my money is still in their pocket 5 years later. If you want to care for a family properly, drop the EC route and take up the EE route. You will have all the benefits you have now, and about four times the money. But, the choice is yours. Work 40 hours and enjoy life and family, or work 80+ hours for half the money and none of the benefits.

 

[emfforhire]

Your not crazy

Your not crazy

Wow, so much to consider. I am wrapping up 38 years of operating a successful electrical contracting buisness. There were a lot of good points brought up by others. I would do it if I were you. You should know that there are no eight hour days being self employed and why even look at your watch towards what most people think is the end of the day because you will stay and finish the job you are on. It gets hard for sure but it's worth it. Be fair and honest with people always and you will do well. Try to collect on site upon completion - spell that out. It saves a lot of grief. After a while you will know who to work for and who not to work for. Keep it simple. Work hourly if you can but work like your trying to beat a bid. When people saw how fast and efficient we worked they added more work. Keep overhead low but do present a professional appearance with such things as company shirts, marked trucks, invoices etc. Buisness networking groups are great but you want to be with other business owners and principals not their salespeople. You will learn a lot about buisness from other buisness people. I enjoyed my trade and industry. I will so miss my customers and employees. I wish you the best!