Am I required to replace this range circuit?

[hurk27]

Re: Am I required to replace this range circuit?

Fridjoc:

why change the bare wire ( ground conductor) with the application of white tape to a "dedicated" neutral?

If I'm getting this question right?
The reason for the change is the NEC does not allow for a SE cable to feed any appliance that uses the grounding conductor for a neutral and a ground even in an existing installation if this circuit is feed from a sub panel. I think the reason is there will be a voltage drop on the neutral bar in this sub-panel if the feeder run is long, this voltage drop will place a deferential voltage between the dryer/Range to anything that is bonded to the main service like the water pipes other appliances Etc...

Presuming this range circiut is rated at greater than 20 amps and there by disqualifying the SE jacket as an acceptable ground conductor

If the concentric grounding conductor was not allowed to be used for over 20 amps then SE cable would not be allowed to be used for service entrance cable hence the name of the cable. and as a service cable the concentric neutral would have to be able to cary more than 20 amps.

Just a question are you getting SE cable crossed with FMC,BX or MC ?

[ December 11, 2003, 12:32 AM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]

 

[gwz2]

Re: Am I required to replace this range circuit?

If you read the Sections noted in some of the above posts', I believe it is the intent of the NEC 250.24 that no equipment is to be grounded by the use of the grounded conductor on the load side of the service disconnect, except as permitted by the exceptions of the older and the latest NEC cycles
.

The grounding of equipment by use of the Grounded Conductor of a "so-called sub-panel" was never permitted, again with specific exceptions, and that was from a second building etc.

gwz2

 

[hurk27]

Re: Am I required to replace this range circuit?

Glen then why the extra wording for the SE cable to only be allowed from service equipment?
I seems that the intent is if the grounded conductor is insulated it could come from a sub-panel or the service equipment if not it would only be allowed from the service panel?
I agree that my reason above was off base as I see now it was more for the accdental contact of the grounded conductor to other grounded metal I.E. the water pipes which would cause a parallel path of the neutral.

250.140
(3) The grounded conductor is insulated, or the grounded conductor is uninsulated and part of a Type SE service-entrance cable and the branch circuit originates at the service equipment .

The way I read it is the "or" means ether insulated or not.

[ December 12, 2003, 02:01 AM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]

 

[cram]

Re: Am I required to replace this range circuit?

I would let both home owner and ahj know,not only about this violation but any other potentially dangerous ones that might exist.The more work the better,but you are not responsible to update the electrical system.

 

[cram]

Re: Am I required to replace this range circuit?

oops... in Massachusetts if you increase or magnify an existing code violation you own it. I would check with AHJ.

 

[ranger12]

Re: Am I required to replace this range circuit?

Fishing Electrician,I live in Washington State.One of the biggest problems we have had with doing upgrades is the hot water tanks.Most old houses have 20 ampere ckt's.A lot of time inspectors require that we upgrade to 30 amp ckt's as per State code.The inspectors take the position that the electrical contractor is in a better position to work with the homeowner to ensure compliance with the State code.I guess it is leverage of some kind.I have had cases where the homeowner expects me to take care of these corrections as part of my bid.Sometimes i have just because it is easier than arguing.I think this relates to your 3 wire range problem in that one has to have these experiences so that when it comes to bidding a new job the customer has to be told upfront that this correction could be called and it will then be the responsibility of the owner to correct it.Contracting at times has it's hard moments.The best suggestion i can give you is to try to give the customer a heads up on what the inspector might call so that it becomes their problem not yours.

 

[pierre]

Re: Am I required to replace this range circuit?

Ranger

"Contracting at times has its hard moments"

AMEN!!!