Ampacity of Bundled Conductors

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mbrooke

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Anyone know how to properly calculate the actual current rating of twined Drake, Cardinal, Pheasant and Falcon? When designing new circuits under 345kv is there any advantage to twin vs single conductors? Also what risk is there in operating line hardware above 100*C (in 35*C ambient sun + 2ft/sec wind) 6-8 hours of the day about half the year?
 

paulengr

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If they are on spacers you get full rating. Bundled tightly obviously kills the ratings. Ampacity is a function of surface area of the conductor, not diameter so proportional to circular mils, minus “internal” faces,

Above 100 C is really not a problem for the CONDUCTOR. You’d just have to calculate the sag and check if it’s a problem. It’s the temperature rating of the lugs and the insulators you have to watch out for. Obtaining higher temperature hardware is usually the issue.
 

mbrooke

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If they are on spacers you get full rating. Bundled tightly obviously kills the ratings. Ampacity is a function of surface area of the conductor, not diameter so proportional to circular mils, minus “internal” faces,

Above 100 C is really not a problem for the CONDUCTOR. You’d just have to calculate the sag and check if it’s a problem. It’s the temperature rating of the lugs and the insulators you have to watch out for. Obtaining higher temperature hardware is usually the issue.

Usually, but as I interpret some POCO standards and some ISO operating criteria is seems like STE and LTE is pushing hardware above 100*C?
 

paulengr

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There is some testing going on up to 150 C in some IEEE research. I read it thinking it would be useful but the sag got out of control to the point where I’d have to be looking at structure changes too so I stopped looking at that point. Coastal area in 120 MPH wind drives everything.
 

mbrooke

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There is some testing going on up to 150 C in some IEEE research. I read it thinking it would be useful but the sag got out of control to the point where I’d have to be looking at structure changes too so I stopped looking at that point. Coastal area in 120 MPH wind drives everything.

Is this testing in comparison with ACSS? ACSS seems to be changing everything.
 

paulengr

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No this was conventional ACSR and AAC and just running it on higher current. AACS would have required reconductoring. Don’t forget too that increased temperature changes your impedance.
 

mbrooke

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No this was conventional ACSR and AAC and just running it on higher current. AACS would have required reconductoring. Don’t forget too that increased temperature changes your impedance.

Does AAC and 4/0 CU hard drawn change reactance with temperature?
 

paulengr

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Does AAC and 4/0 CU hard drawn change reactance with temperature?

Yes. All metals do. Don’t they teach this in school anymore?


DC resistance changes by quite a bit. But since you mentioned AAC, sag changes a lot, which affects the GMR term. Plus length changes a lot too.

Most utilities at some point just calculate some kind of average and somebody comes up with tables of standard pole designs and they never look back. In mountains they do a lot more cad work but the structures are once again relatively fixed. They might have just measured it or use whatever designs don’t fall down (too much). In coastal hurricane prone areas or mountains you get a little different approach because you can’t just take RUS at face value for instance.

It’s only when you run into situations that cannot be answered by “the book” that you might go back and do the basic engineering. The impedance calculations are easy but the geometrical data isn’t because sagging power lines are hyperbolic functions and all the math is very nonlinear.

So either empirical equations or finite element software drives everything. That’s why you will run into a brick wall trying to find data. Back “in the day” Alcoa did all the experimental work and created a book of monographs of every kind of AAC, ACSR, some copper stuff, and so on called the Sag book. You can approximate sag in roughly horizontal terrain with a Taylor series expansion with only a couple terms. The book still exists (updated) and the monographs have been converted to software. South wire sells the software (SAG10) and the book. Better engineering models have been developed, way beyond SAG10, but if all you want is impedance data and you are doing just roughly horizontal terrain, the book has tables that get you within 5-10% error cheaply.
 

mbrooke

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What about for setting step distance elements? What reactance and conductor temp/sag values do I use for those? Obviously an Omicron test done with the line de-energized is going to show different values?
 

mbrooke

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Yes. All metals do. Don’t they teach this in school anymore?


DC resistance changes by quite a bit. But since you mentioned AAC, sag changes a lot, which affects the GMR term. Plus length changes a lot too.


Not resistance, but reactance.

I know resistance changes with temperature significantly, but I'm trying to wrap my mind around susceptance in relation to temperature.
 

GoldDigger

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IMHO, as a former physicist, I would expect that the major, but extremely small, change in susceptance of a wire would be the result of physical expansion of the metal with temperature. For a capacitor or self-inductor the dielectric or ferromagnetic core might have some changes in properties with temperature, but small in the temperature range we are looking at.
 

mbrooke

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IMHO, as a former physicist, I would expect that the major, but extremely small, change in susceptance of a wire would be the result of physical expansion of the metal with temperature. For a capacitor or self-inductor the dielectric or ferromagnetic core might have some changes in properties with temperature, but small in the temperature range we are looking at.


That would make sense.

So in essence aluminum and copper from sag, but steal in terms of ferromagnetic properties changing with temp?
 

paulengr

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That would make sense.

So in essence aluminum and copper from sag, but steal in terms of ferromagnetic properties changing with temp?

Ok I reviewed everything.

Resistance clearly changes.

Series capacitance is a function of length which is increasing but sag as a function of temperature is not linear nor easy to calculate and I’m not sure how much length increases but depending on how much your sag changes this might be a big deal, or a minor factor. I lost access to PLS-CADD a couple job changes ago. It is probably more of a big deal with AAC than say ACSR or ACSS since those are based on steel strength. Also I noticed mention that the annealing temperature on AAC is 94 C so for that particular conductor it’s a practical upper limit,
 

mbrooke

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Ok I reviewed everything.

Resistance clearly changes.

Series capacitance is a function of length which is increasing but sag as a function of temperature is not linear nor easy to calculate and I’m not sure how much length increases but depending on how much your sag changes this might be a big deal, or a minor factor. I lost access to PLS-CADD a couple job changes ago. It is probably more of a big deal with AAC than say ACSR or ACSS since those are based on steel strength. Also I noticed mention that the annealing temperature on AAC is 94 C so for that particular conductor it’s a practical upper limit,

I know, but I was referring to lagging inductive reactance. Not resistance.

What are you getting for Bluebird at 100*C in terms of max current?
 

paulengr

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Southwire lists 1638 at 75 C. Scaling I get about 1900 at 94 C. Grinding through IEEE 738 is a lot of work. Plus don’t forget sag is going up too. Depending on line spacing that’s going to drive your limits more than anything.

When I last looked at this stuff I was trying to see how far a 23 kV distribution line could be pushed. Before temperature and ampacity I ran into the problem that I was already having issues with voltage drop. Large motor WAY out on the end of the line operating machinery with significant regeneration capability. So we got big voltage swings. So AVRs and capacitor banks were out as options. So that meant doing everything I could to keep impedance (both reactance and resistance) at a minimum. Second problem is that as temperatures went up sag became such a factor poles and cross arms would have to be replaced or extended. So I never even got to the ampacity issue.
 
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